xantia 2.1td aircon

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 06 Jun 2007, 08:42

when i first got my car the aircon wasn't working and there were loads of bubbles in the sight glass so i paid to have it re gassed the problem is it just doesn't seem very cold, my wife has a ford focus and the aircon on there gets much colder, is there anything i can check, i know absolutely nothing about aircon all i know is that the sight class now runs clear and the compressor is kicking in, it was about 6mths ago when i had it re gassed but i've not really used it untill now.

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 06 Jun 2007, 15:11

Providing that you have good airflow inside the car, feel the compressor pipes for cold.
One should be cold enough to be covered in condensation.
If not, the gas may already have escaped, and the re-gasser would do better to grow artichokes.

np · Unread post by np » 06 Jun 2007, 19:08

Have you cheched the pollen filter under the glove box?I know from having mine that when it was getting near time to change,or if i was working in dusty quarrys a lot,that it would restrict the airflow a fair old bit & take the chill off.
I had mine regassed twice in the 5 yrs i had it.It was always nice & cold,but nowhere near as good as in my 406.It always seemed to me that newer cars,with the original gas seem more efficient(?)than older cars as the years pile on.

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 06 Jun 2007, 20:56

i'll have a feel of the aircon pipes tomorrow to see how cold they are, the pollen filter is new.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 06 Jun 2007, 22:57

np wrote:It always seemed to me that newer cars,with the original gas seem more efficient(?)than older cars as the years pile on.

I have the opposite in that my Activa with 102k miles blows the coldest air of all my car's

Unread post by **alan s** » 07 Jun 2007, 00:55

Put simply, if it's not cold enough, there's something wrong.
The air/con in Cits is as cold as you'll get, but remember, if there's no bubbles in the sight glass, that can just as easily be a totally dry system as it can be a fully charged one, so check that the compressor is cutting in as it won't if it's totally out of gas.

Alan S

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 07 Jun 2007, 20:06

i've had another look today, the compressor is defiantly cutting in, there is a pipe that runs along the inner wing and that feels cold and has condensation on it , i thought the sight class was clear but there are a few bubbles in it but the fluid is clear, i don't remember seeing any bubbles in there before, does this mean there is a leak somewhere? , i've also noticed that if i have the fan inside the car on auto it only blows slowly not sure if this is part of the problem, i've tried having the aircon on and the fan on full but it's still not very cold.

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 08 Jun 2007, 14:19

Maybe try the temperature slider into the blue at the left, that puts the regulation out of operation.
A few small bubbles at start-up are normal, then it should come clear.
Plenty of bubbles all the time is an indication of low gas.
Mine hasn’t been touched in the 10 years that I’ve had the car, and sometimes circulates brown froth.
No risk of frostbite, but the pressure sensor switch hasn’t stopped the compressor yet.

Also try the inside fan on the manual speeds, to see what the fan motor makes of it, as it’s a very common area of problems.
Feels like second speed makes for the coldest air, as if the increased airflow of the higher speeds was getting close to the system’s cooling limit.

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 08 Jun 2007, 19:44

i'm not sure what you mean by "try the temperature slider into the blue at the left" , isn't that the way how have to have it anyway if the aircon is on, when i have the aircon on i have the temp slider on blue and the fan on auto, it doesn't feel as though a lot of air is getting through the vents, there are bubbles in the sight glass when it's running but the compressor runs without cutting out, so if i have bubbles does that mean that i've got a leak somewhere and if so how do i go about getting it sorted, i had it charged about 6mnths ago and only ran it briefly to check the sight class which was clear , sorry about the endless questions but i haven't got a clues about aircon

Unread post by **admiral51** » 08 Jun 2007, 20:24

could be talking total nonsense now but when i looked through my owners manual for my xantia 1.9d P plate it says that putting slider to either cold or hot (blue/red) and fan on auto will not provide decent airflow as it does something to temp sensor in cabin try putting slider to blue and fan to auto without aircon on then see what happens when you move fan to mid position
probably easier to test on red and auto and then put temp to 26 and fan on auto and see if more airflow into cabin
im assuming you have heater controls that go from blue 18----22----26---red sorry if im way off the mark
colin

i dont think aircon will work on auto fan setting if heater control set blue/red.not sure on climate control system as only had my xantia for 2 months and having so much fun

if only i could get wife to accept aircon regass is more important than a new washing mashine

np · Unread post by np » 08 Jun 2007, 22:45

When you run the heater/air con on auto with it set to max cold & max hot,the auto function will not work.The fan will run very slowly,on the lowest setting.If you put the temp slider to about 18 deg on auto,you will find the fan will work much faster to get the cabin temp to that level,then slow down as it reaches it.
Try setting the temp to max cold,on the face vents,set the recurculating control to recycle,& the fan to max.Leave it for 5 mins & see if its cold then.
You should also use the air con through out the year too.At least for 10 or so mins a week as there is oil in the system that lubes the pump etc.If not,the seals etc can fail.

Unread post by **alan s** » 08 Jun 2007, 23:38

With my Xantia, I've always had the idea that the temp control is worked in conjunction with the fan speed controller on auto, the idea being that a reduction in load passing over the coil allows the temp to get colder.
In theory, this should be true....less load = lower temperature, but in reality, if the air flow is too small, all that happens is that the cold air just falls out the vents and gets overwhelmed by the heat inside the car, yet the exciter fan is still recording cold temps as it is located alongside the outlet ducts so continues to reduce the fan speed.
I find I get a better overall result by raising the temp selected when I'm on auto and as a result I get a stronger flow through the entire car, though last summer, I tended to go manual so I had the say over what speed I had the fan running, this way I didn't get complaints from the back seat passengers about not getting any cold air back there.

Alan S

davethewheel · Unread post by **davethewheel** » 09 Jun 2007, 10:48

i've tried the car with the air set set to recycle and set to cold and fan on max and it defiantly get colder it just doesn't feel cold enough, if i have the fan on auto it just runs slow no matter what the heat setting is it it doesn't alter speed, i'm assuming that as the compressor is working and the car is getting colder but not cold enough and i have bubbles in the sight glass that the the gas must be low, if this is the case does this mean that it has a leak as it was only recently charged, is there anyway that i will be able to find it or is it a job for the specialists.

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 09 Jun 2007, 14:34

No longer relevant since the postings after mine, ‘the temperature slider into the blue at the left’ was meant as the coldest setting on the linear slider of the Mk I.

Bubbles in the sight glass don’t necessarily mean that it's started leaking since the re-gas.
It may have leaked before, and still leaks now.
A proper specialist checks for that, and it’s possible that the re-gas was done on the quick and cheap.
Proper diagnosis would require the use of pressure gauges to see what’s going on, and is not something that can be done without being well equipped for it; not a job for home mechanics.

By law, there is a warranty on the re-gas job, so you should be able to ask him what he’s going to make of it.
He can’t just say that it feels cold enough, I think that it gets measured as temperature drop over a set time interval.
The owner’s book also says that the system can’t maintain the set temperature under all circumstances, but we know that it’s good for over 35ºC.

Unread post by **alan s** » 09 Jun 2007, 21:22

These repairers should be running a leak detector over the entire system or if they've dosed it with green dye, then the ultra violet light should be used to try to find where the gas is escaping.
No air/con system "uses" gas, it "loses" it, so don't fall for that one I've seen pulled, however as a DIY test for leaks, any sign of oil stains particularly around any joint, is a fair indication of a leak in the system.
Another system used is the detergent test where a mix of dishwashing dtergent and water will cause bubbles at a leaking joint. Very small bubbles, but consistent if painted around the nuts at the joints.
By sounds of the size of the leak, I'd be looking for a flattened "O" ring somewhere and as I've said many a time, by the time a system is 8 - 10 years old, many of these O rings will be starting to get a bit the worse for age, particularly those that are under any kind of strain or have been undone at any stage. Also be certain he replaced the blank offs at the service valves, particularly the red one.

Alan S