4Car Dunces

Oystercatcher · Unread post by **Oystercatcher** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:52

Sorry if this has been discussed, but a quick search didn't turn anything up.

Channel 4's (UK) 4Car section are running a poll on the 100 greatest innovations and have something to say about suspension:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/100-greate ... nsion.html

"Air Suspension
Citroen, Austin and others may have gone with hydropneumatic, hydrolastic and other fluid-based systems, but it takes air to give a true flying-carpet feel (and reduce the risk of nausea-inducing wallowing)".

Ermmmmm, which part of hydroPNEUMATIC do they not understand? (OK, so it's not air it's nitrogen but what the hey, at least they realise a compressed gas is the ideal spring)

"Shock absorbers
......and some manufacturers have experimented (eg Citroen's gas-charged spheres)".

No no no no no, the gas-charged sphere is the spring. The 'Shock Absorber' is the hole/valve in the neck of the sphere. Sheesh.

Who wants to tell 'em?

FrenchLeave · Unread post by **FrenchLeave** » 14 Jan 2007, 23:28

Or alternatively, the thing which absorbs shocks, i.e. the shock absorber, is the springing medium (spheres, coil springs or whatever).

The device that controls float by preventing oscillations is the damper.

UFO · Unread post by **UFO** » 15 Jan 2007, 02:21

Yes, it's a 57 year long experiment so far. Indications are good for a positive outcome.

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 15 Jan 2007, 16:55

The epithet Shock absorber, like Condenser is a poor description, but we are stuck with it.
Damper and capacitor describe the items better without ambiguity.

The fact that we say that electric currents flow from +ve to -ve is now beyond hope.

As is Channel 4 - what do you expect?

tomsheppard · Unread post by **tomsheppard** » 15 Jan 2007, 21:39

The dumbing down of all forms of technical literature (because we stupid people wouldn't be able to understand it) is deplorable.
The trouble is that some of us would understand it only too well.
The presenter has to cover all the bases and if his researcher is lazy or dim, you get garbage in.

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 16 Jan 2007, 12:30

The way the air suspension bit reads it seems they are assuming that the fluid systems rely on the fluid for springing as well- they do seem somewhat confused!!

And who's going to explain to them that Hydrolastic was RUBBER sprung, as opposed to Hydragas and also the Citroen system which as we all know are nitrogen sprung...........

But..look how the voting's going! Never mind ABS and the like,leading the voting as Number 1 innovation so far is aircon!!! I can't think of anything more pointless and unneccessary to stick on a motorcar

It's probably all part of society in general's technical dumbing down- how often now do you see the AA or RAC changing healthy looking people's wheels for them? they would obviously rather sit on the hard shoulder death alley for an hour than get the brace and jack out...or maybe they just don't know how...and here's Haynes reasons for dumbing the manuals- http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stor ... &langId=-1!!

Unread post by **philhoward** » 17 Jan 2007, 20:32

uhn113x wrote: The fact that we say that electric currents flow from +ve to -ve is now beyond hope.

Just because someone got it wrong in the first place - what a thing to take a 50/50 guess on and get it wrong! Alas, proving the world is round doesn't address the balance...

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 17 Jan 2007, 23:53

Alas, proving the world is round doesn't address the balance...

.....It's not round, it's oblate......I love maths, me!!

fourwheelsteer · Unread post by **fourwheelsteer** » 18 Jan 2007, 22:03

What a load of rubbish, it seems to have been written by people who know nothing about cars or the technology that goes into them.

Some of the categories have one clear winner because the other nominations are just to silly to contemplate. Consider the Life on the Road category; I had to vote for roundabouts because every other suggestion existed to impede rather than improve the flow of traffic. Two categories have no clear winner because they represent muddled thinking. Alloy wheels, carbonfibre and fibreglass are surely more engineering than styling innovations but the folding hardtop is such a nasty idea (all that weight, all that complexity) and chrome is just a little vulgar. A styling innovation that I liked was the elimination of the traditional radiator grille (first seen on the DS?) but now every car needs a grille to define its "face", apparently. As for engines, the 4-valve pent roof combustion chamber is about the best thing to happen to the internal combustion engine but it doesn't have a fancy name like hemi (not invented by Chrysler whatever their marketing men pretended). Maybe if it wasn't for people experimenting with hemi-heads the 4-valve engine would never have happened.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Jan 2007, 10:52

bxbodger wrote:and here's Haynes reasons for dumbing the manuals- http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stor ... &langId=-1!!

That makes me want to cry.. Why could they not have two ranges? One for us and one for the "majority" who want it dumbed down? Or at least keep the old "OWMs" in print?

This happened with the Pug 205 BoL. The "orange" one was thick and very detailed. Then it was replaced with the thin "red" Service Manual. Guess which is most in demand? A clue, it's not the red one...

Cynically, I recknon it's cheaper for Haynes to do the Dumbed Down one and their decision has no bearing on what any "majority" actually thinks.

The biggest joke is the Xantia BoL. Not worth the paper it is printed on and even that is poor quality...

uhn113x · Unread post by **uhn113x** » 23 Jan 2007, 16:44

citrojim wrote:The biggest joke is the Xantia BoL. Not worth the paper it is printed on and even that is poor quality...

The ZX one is like that, Jim. My 5-volume works manual is better, despite having to get to grips with the heiroglyphics.

The BoL paper would not be so bad if the pictures were not so dreadful.
A lot of copy 'n' paste there, especially the sections telling you to get the dealer to fix things like transmissions.

Many pages wasted on the H&S nanny "we are not responsible for anything" bits as well.

Shame Autobooks ceased production.

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 24 Jan 2007, 16:18

It's only when you see the factory manuals that you realise how much Haynes have cribbed over the years. I have various BL 'operations' manuals accumulated over the years, and Haynes have swiped loads of the line drawings from them.

PRnet is handy, if a bit clunky in it's navigation- Kia also had a similar system but annoyingly they restricted access to it with dealer only passwords- you can still get into the Canadian version but they don't cover the Carens.... hopefully PSA won't cotton on and restrict access to PRnet!