Play in final drive

davetd · Unread post by **davetd** » 01 Oct 2006, 17:57

Evening all

I've got some play in my final drive thats fine when your going along but sometimes causes a jerky pullaway. Its not a major problem but it looked to me like the final drive could be removed from the gearbox without having to change the whole lot.

Questions;

Can this be done

Is it normal for a Xantia with 137k on the clock to have this symptom

I've heard that bolts can come undone in the final drive does anyone know about this

What are the sun and planet gears and can they be replaced if this is the problem

thanks in advance

davetd

JohnD · Unread post by **JohnD** » 01 Oct 2006, 18:26

Is it more than they normally have?

Stewart(oily) · Unread post by **Stewart(oily)** » 01 Oct 2006, 18:33

It is possible to drop the differential unit without removing the box, close examination of the underside of the diff casing will reveal nuts and studs, however not all of them have the same crownwheel and pinion ratios, I have replaced a diff by swapping the original crownwheel gear onto the replacement differential unit, it turned out to be unneccesary work

have you checked the condition of your bottom engine mounting? that can cause the symptoms you seem to have.
Stewart

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Oct 2006, 18:40

All final drives appear to have a lot of free movement as there are a lot of places where there is a little and it all adds up. Your problem is far more likely to be cause by a worn engine mounting as allready suggested or possibly a 'roughed up' clutch, this can happen when you pull away frequently without using any revs, which is easy to do on a diesel.

davetd · Unread post by **davetd** » 01 Oct 2006, 19:13

Thanks for your replies

I've changed all the mounts

If it's normal for the Xantia to have play here, especially at the mileage then I'll live with it.

I systematically checked the driveshaft cv joints and then moved on to the diff when checking for play. The driveshafts were fine whic, to me, pointed to play coming from the final drive, but from what JohnD, PeterN and Stewart said it seems to be normal.

Could be the clutch then but as it doesn't slip I'll tolerate it

thanks again

davetd

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Oct 2006, 20:26

If you find that the clutch is fierce in engaging and also doesn't disengage smoothly but tends to 'hang on' a little gentle slipping of the clutch will probably smooth it out. I have this problem with my XM.

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 01 Oct 2006, 20:37

It is not possible for any amount of backlash between the gears to cause juddering on takeup of drive.
Juddering is caused by the driven plate snatching at the flywheel/pressure plate assembly. mostly down to uneven pressure being applied to it via the diaphragm spring, lateral play in the spigot bearing will also give rise to juddering as will contamination of the driven plate.
The condition of the mountings hardly comes into it, if the clutch is bad it will judder, regarldess of the mountings being buggered or not.

Dave

davetd · Unread post by **davetd** » 01 Oct 2006, 21:41

Dave Burns wrote:It is not possible for any amount of backlash between the gears to cause juddering on takeup of drive.
Juddering is caused by the driven plate snatching at the flywheel/pressure plate assembly. mostly down to uneven pressure being applied to it via the diaphragm spring, lateral play in the spigot bearing will also give rise to juddering as will contamination of the driven plate.
The condition of the mountings hardly comes into it, if the clutch is bad it will judder, regarldess of the mountings being buggered or not.

Dave

I have BACKLASH on taking up drive NOT juddering

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 02 Oct 2006, 10:13

Backlash or large clearances in drivetrain caused by wear is about normal on any car with high mileage and many moons on the roof.
Thats one of the features you get for free buying a s/h car.

Judged by the other questions you have submitted on this Xantia I believe this must be your first car ?

Then I suggest you should try the search function on this forum on any keyword (or acronym) related to problems you find
with your Xantia.
Due to the enormeous amount of postings - this forum is in fact a library in tech issues on Xantia.
Try also the other sections with hints & tips which describes
the most common problems.

davetd · Unread post by **davetd** » 02 Oct 2006, 20:31

This is my 26th car in 11 years.

I've never experienced this backlash before in any of them.

It is my first Citroen though

That'll explain it then

Previous form;-

1974 VW Golf MK1
1984 VW Golf MK 2
1984 Ford Escort Diesel
1990 Rover 216 GTI
1983 BMW 316 E21
1982 BMW 320 E21
1983 BMW 327 (Hybrid) E21
1984 BMW 316 E30
1980 BMW 320 auto E21
1984/5 3 Ford fiestas
1987 Ford Sierra
1990 Lancia Delta Integrale
1988 Ford Transit
1988 BMW 535i E28
1988 BMW 528i E28
1985 Nissan 300 ZX Targa
1983 Datsun 280 Z Targa
1988 BMW 528i E28
1985 BMW 316 E30
1985 BMW 323i (rare South African Import) E30
1990 Ford Escort Van Mk 4
1990 VW Passat GTi saloon
2001 Ford Focus 1.8
2005 VW Golf MK5 TDi
1993 Citroen Xantia
1993 VW Golf GL

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 04 Oct 2006, 17:36

I have a 1999 Hdi 110 (132,00 miles) with a large amount of backlash from the diff/gearbox which results in a clonk when changing from overrun to drive - I dont think its normal as we have two other Xantias in the family which have virtually no play - the 1995 1.9 TD has done over 200,00 miles and the 1994 1.9D has done 125,000 miles - neither exibit the same symptons

If you do remove the diff with the gearbox in the car let us know as its something I have thought about trying.

Regards

Richard

JohnD · Unread post by **JohnD** » 04 Oct 2006, 18:03

RStacey wrote: which results in a clonk when changing from overrun to drive

Have you checked the CV joints?

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 04 Oct 2006, 18:58

1st thing I checked was drive shaft joints - the play and noise is definitly from the diff

davetd · Unread post by **davetd** » 04 Oct 2006, 19:29

RStacey wrote:I have a 1999 Hdi 110 (132,00 miles) with a large amount of backlash from the diff/gearbox which results in a clonk when changing from overrun to drive - I dont think its normal as we have two other Xantias in the family which have virtually no play - the 1995 1.9 TD has done over 200,00 miles and the 1994 1.9D has done 125,000 miles - neither exibit the same symptons

If you do remove the diff with the gearbox in the car let us know as its something I have thought about trying.

Regards

Richard

At last- someone understands me!

None of the previous cars I listed have had this problem, but to be honest you can't solve a problem like this on the forum, you need a mechanic to see for themselves.

NB I checked the driveshafts first, then the driveshaft to diff relationship. This is where I found the play. I have noticed my clutch is a bit grabby and this exacerbates the problem. It's mainly a nuisance in slow moving traffic; on faster gearchanges I just slip the clutch a bit.

davetd

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 04 Oct 2006, 19:48

I have no problem with judder or pulling away - just the noise, a large amount of play (relative to the others) and I can also hear something loose in the diff if I jack the car up and turn a wheel by hand - the noise is always at the same position of the wheel and 180 degrees apart as if the planet gear spindle is sliding up and down

I've done 4000 miles since I noticed this problem and it's not got any worse, but I'm nervous it will result in a major trauma before I get around to fixing it

BTW all the parts to rebuild the diff on the Hdi (similar but not identical to the 1.9TD) are available if you can afford them - total cost £700 - 800

Regards

Richard