Xsara 99 Turbo Diesel , fuel problems

omriohyon · Unread post by **omriohyon** » 09 Jul 2006, 09:15

Hello,
I got a citoren Xsara 1999 turbo Diesel.
the car is mine from new.
the car has done 460k kilometers.
The problems started 3 days ago, i Washed ( yes i know - stupid) the Fuel pump with Degrant (something that remove oil) and put alot of water on it. dispite this stupid move, the car was perefectly fine.
day after that, my prolems occoured.
the engine RPM \revs: from 700-1000rpms peridocly, In the first 2 days: hard start, very hardstart. must put the the gas pedel all tjhe way, + White smoke. now you can "Eiasly" start , again. but - the revs problem is remaining.
What should i do first?
I was at Diesel place where they Rebuilt the pumps, he say its not the pump. he says he think i got air in the system, and the pump is trying to override it by putting more fuel.
But i had this problem before, i sent the pump to rebuilt and the thing stoped.
so, whats now?
P.S sorry about my english.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 09 Jul 2006, 11:26

The white smoke tells me there is fuel when the engine tries to start - but it will not ignite.

First check will then be the glowplugs electrical connections. They could have been corroded from the cleaning wash you have done.
Try tighten up a bit the small nuts holding the cable on the tip of each glowplug.

You could also try if the glowplugs are functioning. This is very easy :
The glowplugs have very low ohmic resistance - almost a shortcircuit.
Using an ohm meter you should therefore have a reading of approx 0.8-1.2 ohms - from engine earth to glowplug tip - WHEN the cable is removed.

Last check would be to test the voltage at the glowplug tips when you are starting the engine. You should have at least 10.8V.
If that fails - then test your battery. This should have at least 11V - directly from +pole to -pole when trying to start.
If not - then it is your battery at fault.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 09 Jul 2006, 14:06

Agree with Anders. Does it have electronic engine management, if so I wonder if some water has got in somewhere is is upsetting the injection timing?

omriohyon · Unread post by **omriohyon** » 09 Jul 2006, 18:00

Glow plugs are not the issue, they are brand new, and the problem started after the fuel pump was washed. with water and Degrant.
The white smoke go instantly if i push the pedel of the acceleration, the only problem now is the irratic idleing , 7-8-9k rpms, up and down up and down, when idiling. when driving there is no problem what so ever. only when you put the Gearbox in Neutral. and standing.
i also see "Bubbles" on the Diesel pipe going from the Diesel filter to the PUMP, the filter has been replaced + the filter gasket. still..
I think the injection pump has gone mad since the wash.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 09 Jul 2006, 19:51

omriohyon wrote: ... i also see "Bubbles" on the Diesel pipe going from the Diesel filter to the PUMP, the ...

Exactly that should ring you a big & loud bell Mr Omriohyon

You seem to have dislodged the fuel filter a wee bit - allowing for air getting in. Remember - the fuel feed line is under vacuum from the suction of the pump. Therefore you wont see any fuel leaking out - but insted air is sucked in.

There is no reason to speculate further - you have found your problem 8)

omriohyon · Unread post by **omriohyon** » 09 Jul 2006, 20:46

I Double checked today, I Refitted the fuel filter, the gasket and all is in place, bleeded the system, and still... i can see bubbles getting out with the diesel in the pipe thats go from the fuel filter housing to the pump..
Is there a way to isolate the problem? aka, can i take a big tank of diesel, and put it directly to the pump (bypassing the entire car fuel system?) in order to check wheter it is the fuel pump or the Filter housing\some other?

P.S I think i will upload video of the process, in order to show what i mean.
It might help. , first thing on morning

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 09 Jul 2006, 21:58

Dont get it too complex for yourself now

You know for a fact the problem is air in the fuel - in the fuel feed line.
You can visually see the problem.

Now to diagnose where the air gets in :
As you have an opaque fuel line from filter to pump - visualizing the problem - why not copy that principle on the fuel feed BEFORE the filter ?

As this will INSTANTLY tell you if its the filter assembly - or the fuel feed from tank to filter thats faulty.

omriohyon · Unread post by **omriohyon** » 09 Jul 2006, 23:37

the question is.. HOW DO I DO THAT?
I only got one pipe going out from the Filter housing to the pump, wich is clear. and bright, so i can see the diesel.
here is a pic
Please try to technicaly describe what should i do and where to start

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 10 Jul 2006, 19:53

Right then -

Have a look here :
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 73070L.gif

You recognise the filter bowl - to which at rear is attahced the elbow 13 - the pipe 12 - the rubber hose 1 - to the primer bulb 4.
This line is the input from the tank.
Somewhere in this line you substitute one of the fuel hoses with a piece of clear PVC fuel hosing - to look for air.

I think you can see part of it (the thicker one in the clamp) below your white text square inserted on the image.
The thinner hose crossing seen at same location would be the injector leak-off hose lines.

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Xsara 99 Turbo Diesel , fuel problems

Xsara 99 Turbo Diesel , fuel problems

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