306dt Suspension Giving Up

deere3350 · Unread post by **deere3350** » 02 Jun 2006, 18:59

After nine years of ownership and 213,000 miles, the rear suspension of my 1996 306dt has finally decided to give up

.

Weeks of clunks, bangs and creaks finally forced me to visit a garage today, and I've been advised that a bearing in the axle has collapsed, and the top of the wheel on the drivers side is almost touching the car body.

They've advised that I should replace the axle with a scrapper, possibly complete with shocks. The only other option is to visit a dealer and get the bearings changed. I've been quoted around £200 for the first option.

Does anyone know how much labour is involved and how much it's likely to cost to get the bearings replaced by a main dealer (if indeed it's possible)?

Any suggestions to the best options and possible costs involved greatfully received!

There was me thinking I was doing alright getting to this mileage on the original head gasket and heater matrix too. I suppose it was too good to be true not to expect a major bill from a Peugeot at some point

.

Thanks in advance.

PowerLee · Unread post by **PowerLee** » 02 Jun 2006, 20:39

Its far easier & cheaper in the long run to get a good second hand rear axle & swop the whole lot over then to try & mess about by changing just the bearings

deere3350 · Unread post by **deere3350** » 02 Jun 2006, 22:14

Thanks for the reply Powerlee.

If I get it to the 250,000 mark with a second hand axle that'll be good enough for me. Don't really like to think what it would cost to replace the bearings at a dealer

Thanks again.

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 03 Jun 2006, 16:11

Except that you cannot simply replace the bearings.

Peugeot in their infinite wisdom used needle roller bearings for this location, but with no inner race, and only a wafer-thin outer race. The needle rollers bear directly on the axle tube.

Which is an utterly stupid design, as the need rollers wear big grooves in the axle tube, thus rendering it useless. They also eventually wear through the thin outer bearing, and wear grooves in the cast-iron radius arm too.

The 405 has the same design, and the same serious problems. This is what one of the bearings looked like when I pulled it out of one of my old 405's:

There are 2 ways to fix this. The sensible fix is a replacement axle tube in good condition. Unfortunately most breakers know about this design fault, and charge big money for good condition Pug back axles. The "bodge" method is to grind the back axle tube back to good metal, and then weld in new steel. Then grind this to make it smooth and fit new bearings. Personally, I doubt this would work for very long as you can never get the axle to be perfectly round again. Plus, it's still a rubbish design.

There is a third alternative. On my 405 I designed an alternative sleeve-and-big-roller-bearing system, that uses different working surfaces than the orginial design, and hence can be used on a "damaged" axle, and should also be a permanent repair. It's currnently being trialled in one vehicle. A similar system could be fitted to a 306.... I just don't know if all the dimensions of the axle tube and radius arm are the same.

Makes a BX/CX/Xantia rear arm bearings look sophisticated and easy to replace.

deere3350 · Unread post by **deere3350** » 03 Jun 2006, 19:33

fastandfurryous,

Think I'll go with the suggestion for a second hand axle. I've been quoted around £200 for the whole job. Out of interest, do you know if the axle and suspension setup would be exacly the same for all 306 models of that year? I'm a bit concerned that I may end up with an axle out of a 1.4 petrol.

Thanks in advance.

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 03 Jun 2006, 19:58

This might be an option depending on your budget.

http://www.sspengineering.co.uk/

Dave

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 03 Jun 2006, 20:29

deere3350 wrote:I'm a bit concerned that I may end up with an axle out of a 1.4 petrol.

The basic axle tube will be the same. Everything else is model dependent.

Torsion bar stiffness, damper settings, abs/non-abs arms, Brake disc/drum (& size of components) etc.etc. all have the potential to be different depending on the model.

Also, you need to be absolutely sure that the axle you get is good, as since the needle rollers are so small, they can be rusty and knackered well before it starts to show up as wheel lean.

Personally, I'd want to strip both your axle and the replacement, and then build a reconditioned one from the appropriate parts, along with lots and lots of grease in the bearing assemblies.

deere3350 · Unread post by **deere3350** » 03 Jun 2006, 20:48

Thanks for your replies, Dave Burns and fastandfurrious.

fastandfurryous - your suggestion sounds like it would be time consuming to say the least. No doubt expensive to pay someone else to do as well.

What do you think of the link suggested by Dave Burns? Can't go wrong at £285 with a two year warranty methinks.

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 03 Jun 2006, 23:34

Except that it's not £285, it's £352.50 for an axle delivered to you. (vat and delivery)

to be honest, I'd have said that the main time-consuming part of this operation is the removing and refitting of the axle to the car. Once it's out and on the floor, stripping and rebuilding is probably the easy bit. So, it's either £352 and a lot of work to remove/refit, or £400 to have it fitted. Which on the face of it looks like good value. You would of course have to go to their workshop though.

Or, £100 for a breakers yard axle and a couple of days of work.

deere3350 · Unread post by **deere3350** » 04 Jun 2006, 11:04

Just noticed that I hadn't included VAT

Still looks like a good deal though for another couple of years of relatively cheap motoring - enought to hit the 250,000 mark hopefully!

Thanks for all replies - much appreciated.

rossd · Unread post by **rossd** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:13

I got a quote from my local Peugeot delaer for then to redo the axle bearings (Just for a laugh for than anything!!)
Here is their breakdown:

"Our experience shows that if the arms are worn on the bearings then the cross tube can also be worn. Our estimate (without seeing the vehicle) is for new arms and cross shaft.

Parts 789.00
Labour 530.40
1319.40
Plus vat @ 17.5% 230.89
Total 1550.29"

And yes, I did simply laugh at that quote!!!

PowerLee · Unread post by **PowerLee** » 05 Jun 2006, 15:56

Thats a good quote from a Peugeot dealer, They used to quote over £2K a few years ago

stevieb · Unread post by **stevieb** » 05 Jun 2006, 17:16

PowerLee wrote:Thats a good quote from a Peugeot dealer, They used to quote over £2K a few years ago

But their parts prices vary wildly, which might explain it. I've had two front ARB droplinks from two different dealers in Derbyshire with more than £10 difference in price - before VAT.

How does that work...???

kagey · Unread post by **kagey** » 24 Jun 2008, 07:09

hows this for resurrecting a golden oldie ?

my estate version is really low at the back and has started to creak a little on the back right and i would like to do a big run this weekend with plenty of weight inside it

can anyone enlighten me as to how a big a job it is to remove and refit an axle, roughly how much work is involved working at a steady pace with a pit and allowing for french rusted nuts

is it possible to just replace the shocks ?

bigjl2 · Unread post by **bigjl2** » 30 Jun 2008, 03:51

Don't forget that the axle from the breakers yard could be 1000 miles away from being as knackered as the one you already have. If the car is in good nick I would put on the new/rebuilt axle, especially if it comes with a two year warranty.