Xantia estate - how many spheres?

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 27 Jul 2003, 17:39

[Preamble: considering the importance of replacing the suspension spheres for ride comfort, the Haynes manual is very secretive about the whole process, so here I post my first message to you of the forum, who casually swap tips for unscrewing these green globes, whereas I am nervous about commencing the process without some clear technical knowledge. Can you point me to a step-by-step how-to guide for a competent DIY mechanic with no Citroen suspension experience? Or perhaps one of you could lay out the processes/pitfalls/tools/fluid requirements as a reference for all 6 year Xantians present and future...]
The ride on my 1996 Xantia estate has got rockier and rockier until urban trips have become nearly unbearable. Spheres need replacement, right? So, GSF sell the spheres and lease/loan the removal tool, yes?
What about the LHM fluid - bleed/drain/refill/replace filter - or leave well alone?
Some basic help here, from someone who has done this job would be extremely appreciated.
Thanxinadvance,
Thregwort, Essex UK.

rg · Unread post by rg » 27 Jul 2003, 18:11

See
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/sus ... spens.html
More links available if you would like them and have time to read them. I can post as required.
There is masses of stuff on the web about running "mature" Citroens.
rg
XM 2.5 VSX '97

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 27 Jul 2003, 19:10

As for replacing the spheres. The front ones at each side are easy. To get to the rest you need decent support for the car.
I've attempted rears twice, once on a BX where after breaking the pipe I wound up having to replace the whole rear suspension strut due to a rusted in coupling (the pipes needed doing anyway[:(]). And once on a Xantia which I gave up on because it looked like a repeat performance, and took it to an independant who showed me the trick of loosening them with the suspension pressurised [:I] and only charged me a fiver. [:)]

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 27 Jul 2003, 22:50

Thanks rg,
Good link, though mostly bx-orientated.
Any more links you have would be devoured eagerly.
[The good news - after testing as described, it seems only the front pair of spheres need replacing. They are rock solid with no travel at all!]
Homer: you say replacing the front pair is *easy*.
So: loosen sphere by 1/4 turn whilst system still under pressure; undo pressure regulator 1 - 1.5 turns; move height adjustment lever to lowest; unscrew sphere completely; fit new sphere having greased mating surface; tighten by hand only; re-centre height adjustment lever. Job complete - yes?
Have I missed anything vital?
Thanxinadvance,
Thregwort, Essex UK.

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 28 Jul 2003, 00:02

To do the front ones you can just release the pressure first.
Put it on lowest height setting then undo the pressure regulator screw (you'll hear it hiss as the pressure escapes).
Use a sturdy strap wrench or chain type oil filter wrench to get them moving, then they will come off by hand. I actually have something from my Dads days as a pipe fitter on the oil refineries with a 3 foot handle and inch long chain links but that's overdoing it a bit.[:D] By rights they shouldn't take that much force to move them.
Carefull as you remove them, they may squirt fluid.
Screw the new ones on, use a new seal, and tighten the pressure regulator screw. Fire her up and raise/lower it a few times to clear any air and you should be good to go.

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 28 Jul 2003, 04:54

Thanks Homer,
I'll give it a go.
Order two spheres, await delivery, fit as instructed, will report back with result.
Thanks to all for swift responses.
Thregwort, Essex, UK

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 28 Jul 2003, 05:46

Hang on chaps, one other important point.
Select the low height setting with the engine running and let it tick over for a minute, then stop the engine and undo the pressure release screw, if you don't do it this way and you open the release screw as soon as the body lowers, the anti sink valves will close trapping pressure in the suspension and spheres making their removal a very messy affair.
So the engine has to be running to keep the A/S valves open while all the pressure in suspension is completely exhausted.
Dave

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 28 Jul 2003, 12:58

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Burns</i>

Hang on chaps, one other important point.
Select the low height setting with the engine running and let it tick over for a minute, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes, should have been a bit more explicit about that. Sorry, rushing to get home.[8D]

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 28 Jul 2003, 21:33

thanks Dave, got that extra piece of important info.
Thregwort

rg · Unread post by rg » 30 Jul 2003, 00:12

Thregwort,
See
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=5919
also
http://web.actwin.com/toaph/citroen/work/about.html
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/sus ... spens.html
http://www.citroencarclub.org/
http://www.citroen-ds-id.com./
http://huizen.dds.nl/~toi/citroen_links.html
http://www.wirehub.nl/~tqdesign/cw-xm.htm
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/snippets/grease.htm
http://www.foctor.screaming.net/bx.htm
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/snippets/lhm_story.htm
http://www.citroexpert.nl/
http://www.xm-centre.com/
http://yarchive.net/car/citroen.html
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/
http://www.woollard.com.btinternet.co.uk/
http://www.woollard.com.btinternet.co.u ... Buying.htm
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=6724
http://www.geocities.com/citroen_bx/FAQ ... s_003.html
http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/xm/Hydract ... inding.doc
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=8277
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=5529
http://www.citroen.mb.ca/organr.html
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=5919
http://rammstein.dfmk.hu/~phoenix/XMCD1/
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/citroensforsale/
http://www.preloved.co.uk/reviews/revie ... uctID=1054
http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/car_r ... del_id=341
A bit XM-biased (I run one)
But I hope that they are useful.
There is a Yahoo! Xantia owners newsgroup, plus, of course, The Citroen Car Club.
Cheers
rg

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 30 Jul 2003, 15:07

Thanks rg,
Good reading, though the family might not agree - I'm rapidly becoming a fluid dynamics bore!
Sphere replacement: front pair only.
I went for GSF recons - arrived this morning in a French factory box, including new sealing rings - Andyspares part number N45337. Cost including next-day carriage - £38.78.
I'm off down the lock-up now to fit them, in line with the good advice from you all (see above).
I'll report back to tidy up this thread with (I hope) a success story!
Thregwort, Essex UK.

rg · Unread post by rg » 30 Jul 2003, 15:18

Thregwort,
Check particularly the Honest John links which have various bits on Xantia sphere removal.
Always support the car on axle stands, BTW. Xantias have been known to drop on mechanics and kill them. Yes, really..
rg

DLM · Unread post by **DLM** » 30 Jul 2003, 15:28

rg - I was the "David M" in the link you quoted at the top of the earlier list. I didn't get to try the "three-wheels on my wagon" trick.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... v=i&t=5919
For the record (and probably irrelevant because they were rear spheres) I changed them eventually by clamping the sphere cylinders using a large stilson-type wrench braced against the ground and positioned to tighten with increasing anticlockwise load from the sphere removal tool. It became a 5-minute job per side.
David

Thregwort · Unread post by **Thregwort** » 30 Jul 2003, 19:05

Here we are 3 hours later; two new front spheres fitted successfully, and without incident thanks to all your advice.
Spheres unscrewed easily with sustained moderate pressure (I just used an oil filter chain wrench) losing perhaps 1/2 cup of LHM fluid.
Did the Citrobics a few times after screwing on replacements with new (supplied) rubber seals and seatings lubed with LHM. Topped up the reservoir, and job done.
Lovely ride improvement, I'm tempted to do the back pair also, though they look a bit rust-spotted and the difficulties that may be encountered are well documented here and elsewhere.
I'll give it a week to settle then we'll see.
Thanks to all once again for a most satisfactory and (compared to Cit garage quote) extremely cheap result.
Thregwort, Essex UK.

mark_sp · Unread post by **mark_sp** » 30 Jul 2003, 21:34

I recently replaced the spheres at all corners on my Xantia hatch. Not sure what the estate is like underneath but the rears were no problem on the hatch.
with the engine idling, handbrake on, the car on high setting I cracked the rear spheres a quater of a turn with one of the Pliades tools. when doing this I had axle stands in place in case of an 'incident' but the cars weight was on its wheels, it was just hovering above the stands.
I then removed the stands, put the car on normal height and reversed the rear wheels onto a couple of rows of block pavers I just happened to have lying around. I then put the car onto low height setting, let it idle for a minute then stopped the engine and depressurised the system.
The block pavers gave about an additional 50mm of clearance and this was enough for me to swap the spheres, undoing the spheres by hand only [if theres resistance you still have pressure in the system]and tightening by hand.
the more flat the spheres are the bigger loss of LHM will be.
just repressurised and checked LHM level, job done.
Of course this wont work for the ant-sink sphere but thats another story.
Mark_sp