I DONT HAVE A CHIp i just annoyed the way in which you interpreted my response. maybe it was the way i wrote it.
alls i need is the forum runner and crash scientist ganging up on me.
safest citroen ?
-
adrianeaton
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 06 Mar 2001, 17:57
Benj
As I said above, I meant no offence. I'm sticking to agreeing with you about the shelf life of the 100.
As far as slating it goes - safety and build quality are intrinsically linked. That's as far as I went.
I also took your comments to be based on annoyance at my point of view - if that's not the case then lets shake and forget it [:)]
Just to clear up what Jon said I do for a living, at the time I was working with the 100 I was directly involved with NCAP testing. I'm currently a project manager dealing with vehicle safety - no Mensa membership here, though [:p]
Hope we can leave it there? Cheers
Adrian
As I said above, I meant no offence. I'm sticking to agreeing with you about the shelf life of the 100.
As far as slating it goes - safety and build quality are intrinsically linked. That's as far as I went.
I also took your comments to be based on annoyance at my point of view - if that's not the case then lets shake and forget it [:)]
Just to clear up what Jon said I do for a living, at the time I was working with the 100 I was directly involved with NCAP testing. I'm currently a project manager dealing with vehicle safety - no Mensa membership here, though [:p]
Hope we can leave it there? Cheers
Adrian
-
benj
- Posts: 154
- Joined: 14 Jul 2003, 19:30
adrain,
no problem i never meant to be rude in the first place.
and maybe if i wrote my reply in lower case it would have come over a bit better.
jon "why am I arguing over a ****ing Rover 100 in the Citroen Forum?" I dont know Jon maybe its because you didn't like someone to have a different opinion to your own.
no problem i never meant to be rude in the first place.
and maybe if i wrote my reply in lower case it would have come over a bit better.
jon "why am I arguing over a ****ing Rover 100 in the Citroen Forum?" I dont know Jon maybe its because you didn't like someone to have a different opinion to your own.
-
algieuk
- Posts: 127
- Joined: 07 Apr 2003, 14:56
-
allmond
- Posts: 214
- Joined: 28 Feb 2001, 01:02
Woooahhh! That got a bit lively didn't it?
To get back to the original topic, if I remember correctly, the NCAP tests were on the old shape Xantia, and the facelift model was a response to that. New structure from the A pillar forward, and multiple airbags were installed to meet the safety criticisms.
I never could find a test of the facelift model though.
Does anyone know if I remember it right?
Jamie
To get back to the original topic, if I remember correctly, the NCAP tests were on the old shape Xantia, and the facelift model was a response to that. New structure from the A pillar forward, and multiple airbags were installed to meet the safety criticisms.
I never could find a test of the facelift model though.
Does anyone know if I remember it right?
Jamie
-
nick
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 01:49
Whether the new model Xantia was as a result of the NCAP tests or not I'm not sure - it was launched only a couple of months after the test was carried out. I think new European regulations on crash safety came into force from 1998, hence the improved version launched around then.
The old shape Xantia wasn't especially bad in this respect compared to other models at the time though, it got roughly the same NCAP rating (2 stars) as the Saab 900, BMW 3 series and Rover 600. It was overshadowed by the mk1 Mondeo which was launched at about the same time and got three stars, but the Mondeo was considered a particularly safe car back then.
I’ve never been able to find any crash test results for the facelift Xantia either.
Nick
The old shape Xantia wasn't especially bad in this respect compared to other models at the time though, it got roughly the same NCAP rating (2 stars) as the Saab 900, BMW 3 series and Rover 600. It was overshadowed by the mk1 Mondeo which was launched at about the same time and got three stars, but the Mondeo was considered a particularly safe car back then.
I’ve never been able to find any crash test results for the facelift Xantia either.
Nick
-
adrianeaton
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 06 Mar 2001, 17:57
The later Xantia was never tested by NCAP as in the early days they used to select a particular size category to test to try and build up numbers of available results in some logical order.
These days, cars are tested as they become available. Often manufacturers will supply cars before the launch date so the results can be used for advertising as early as possible after launch e.g. the latest Pluriel and Megane results.
Going back to the original post (and sorry for going so far off topic) and I reckon of the older Citroens you wouldn't go far wrong with a CX. All that bonnet space is a good thing in reducing the loads transferred to the passenger compartment!
I'm not sure the BX and XM would be as good - certainly my BX feels especially flimsy, although ones I've seen that have been crashed have stood up quite well despite lots of deformation. The XM will do well against less stiff or lighter cars but for its size is quite light build and I've seen some crashed ones with serious structural failure around the A pillars and roof.
Only my opinion, of course. The legislative test is simply a pass/fail so no information on how well they do compared to the competition is available - hence NCAP.
Cheers
Adrian
These days, cars are tested as they become available. Often manufacturers will supply cars before the launch date so the results can be used for advertising as early as possible after launch e.g. the latest Pluriel and Megane results.
Going back to the original post (and sorry for going so far off topic) and I reckon of the older Citroens you wouldn't go far wrong with a CX. All that bonnet space is a good thing in reducing the loads transferred to the passenger compartment!
I'm not sure the BX and XM would be as good - certainly my BX feels especially flimsy, although ones I've seen that have been crashed have stood up quite well despite lots of deformation. The XM will do well against less stiff or lighter cars but for its size is quite light build and I've seen some crashed ones with serious structural failure around the A pillars and roof.
Only my opinion, of course. The legislative test is simply a pass/fail so no information on how well they do compared to the competition is available - hence NCAP.
Cheers
Adrian
-
alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
At the risk of 3.5 million owners getting their knickers in a twist...[:D][:0] I think this is & has been a fascinating subject but; we never got the 2CV, Saxo, ZX & plenty of the other cars you get over there based on these test results; (Metro included....sorry about that [:p] It was even such a touchy subject that at one stage it was mooted that even air bags would be outlawed out here.
That seems to be ridiculous given the safety advantages we hear about air bags, so why were they in doubt in Australia?
Well; unlike the movies, we don't get kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our capital cities (however a mob of them did almost take over a town near me a couple of years ago) but these things, cute & all they look, are an absolute bloody menace around cars & we literally have millions of them out here particularly in rural & regional areas. This is the scenario; a 6 foot buck jumps into the path of your car; you hit it, and assuming the big bludger doesn't come through the windscreen but bounces off, it's like hitting a bullock; it's solid & the air bag deploys. You bounce into the air bag, the car spears off the road into the scrub & as the air bag deflates enough for you to see over the top of it.....there's a gum tree with a 4 foot girth looking straight through the windscreen at you and.......you're still doing about 40MPH. Imagine that scenario in a 2CV. Worst part is that the 2CV whilst not allowed to be sold new here is now being brought in by the hundreds as "private imports" so work the logic out in that.
The Japs imported heaps of Suzuki, Honda & Daihatsu mini type vans and got around the laws by declaring them as "commercial" vehicles.
Strange world hey??
Alan S
That seems to be ridiculous given the safety advantages we hear about air bags, so why were they in doubt in Australia?
Well; unlike the movies, we don't get kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our capital cities (however a mob of them did almost take over a town near me a couple of years ago) but these things, cute & all they look, are an absolute bloody menace around cars & we literally have millions of them out here particularly in rural & regional areas. This is the scenario; a 6 foot buck jumps into the path of your car; you hit it, and assuming the big bludger doesn't come through the windscreen but bounces off, it's like hitting a bullock; it's solid & the air bag deploys. You bounce into the air bag, the car spears off the road into the scrub & as the air bag deflates enough for you to see over the top of it.....there's a gum tree with a 4 foot girth looking straight through the windscreen at you and.......you're still doing about 40MPH. Imagine that scenario in a 2CV. Worst part is that the 2CV whilst not allowed to be sold new here is now being brought in by the hundreds as "private imports" so work the logic out in that.
The Japs imported heaps of Suzuki, Honda & Daihatsu mini type vans and got around the laws by declaring them as "commercial" vehicles.
Strange world hey??
Alan S
-
nick
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 01:49
-
adrianeaton
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 06 Mar 2001, 17:57
You're quite right Nick.
Modern cars are now so much better in side impact because of all the research done from the early 80's onwards.
You don't see manufacturers advertising the benefits of side impacts bars anymore, do you?! There's a good reason for that.....poor engineering being a major factor. It took a long time to get the engineering right.
Side impact bars are still fitted, but they don't operate in isolation so the problems with them have been alleviated.
Alan - for your info, an average frontal airbag will inflate in 40ms. About another 40ms and it's down again! In other words, blink and you miss it.
On that cheery thought.....
Adrian
Modern cars are now so much better in side impact because of all the research done from the early 80's onwards.
You don't see manufacturers advertising the benefits of side impacts bars anymore, do you?! There's a good reason for that.....poor engineering being a major factor. It took a long time to get the engineering right.
Side impact bars are still fitted, but they don't operate in isolation so the problems with them have been alleviated.
Alan - for your info, an average frontal airbag will inflate in 40ms. About another 40ms and it's down again! In other words, blink and you miss it.
On that cheery thought.....
Adrian
-
alan s
- RIP 2010
- Posts: 2542
- Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 15:53
- x 6
Adrian,
The side impact bars were a major factor out here and the French had this "thing" about them...from memory, the Froggys were big on double skins whilst our wild colonial boys insisted on the intrusion bars hence the lack of models imported which were supposedly capable of having the intrusion bars fitted; didn't seem to be a major factor once the personal imports started happening.
FYI, as someone who has driven a lot of his life around 'roos, and for the benefit of potential backpackers, the trick is, if a kangaroo jumps out in front of you, jump on the brakes so that you don't hit the second one as they always run in pairs......tip of the week???[:D][:D][:D]
Alan S [}:)]
The side impact bars were a major factor out here and the French had this "thing" about them...from memory, the Froggys were big on double skins whilst our wild colonial boys insisted on the intrusion bars hence the lack of models imported which were supposedly capable of having the intrusion bars fitted; didn't seem to be a major factor once the personal imports started happening.
FYI, as someone who has driven a lot of his life around 'roos, and for the benefit of potential backpackers, the trick is, if a kangaroo jumps out in front of you, jump on the brakes so that you don't hit the second one as they always run in pairs......tip of the week???[:D][:D][:D]
Alan S [}:)]
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
-
adrianeaton
- Posts: 152
- Joined: 06 Mar 2001, 17:57
Alan
Side impact bars, if badly designed, have this nasty habit of actually loading the side of the body at a point. Basically increasing the risk of a fracture!!
Current wisdom is to spread the load as much as possible whilst accelerating the body away from the point of impact (hence double skins). Side impact beams can work at reducing intrusion and so long as the rest of the structure can take the load, and that load is spread, they are good!
Anders - yep, especially early ones without seatbelts! I always remember a photo from a mortuary slab of a bloke who'd been cut out of an RS Turbo - complete with cut off steering wheel boss embedded in his chest [xx(][xx(] Ought to be enough to make people want to wear their seatbelts.....
Adrian
Side impact bars, if badly designed, have this nasty habit of actually loading the side of the body at a point. Basically increasing the risk of a fracture!!
Current wisdom is to spread the load as much as possible whilst accelerating the body away from the point of impact (hence double skins). Side impact beams can work at reducing intrusion and so long as the rest of the structure can take the load, and that load is spread, they are good!
Anders - yep, especially early ones without seatbelts! I always remember a photo from a mortuary slab of a bloke who'd been cut out of an RS Turbo - complete with cut off steering wheel boss embedded in his chest [xx(][xx(] Ought to be enough to make people want to wear their seatbelts.....
Adrian
-
nick
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 01:49
I had the misfortune to have a couple of accidents whilst driving BX's and I was always surprised how strong they were ! The trim was always flimsy, but the shell underneath must have been quite strong.
A friend of mine had an '87 BX estate until it was hit in the side by a Megane driver who didn't look when pulling out of a side road. The BX suffered bad cosmetic damage all down one side and was written off due to its age, but was still driveable. The Renault had to be trailered and was written off too, despite being only about 2 years old.
A friend of mine had an '87 BX estate until it was hit in the side by a Megane driver who didn't look when pulling out of a side road. The BX suffered bad cosmetic damage all down one side and was written off due to its age, but was still driveable. The Renault had to be trailered and was written off too, despite being only about 2 years old.
-
mark_sp
- Posts: 230
- Joined: 13 Apr 2003, 00:47