C5 v XM Has anyone owned both?

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 11 Apr 2006, 21:33

fastandfurious - dont do that to me. I have owned three diesel Safari's, the last one I had for seven years and covered over 150k in it, and it was without doubt the best car I have ever owned, including the XM, but, I had to replace the head gasket about every 15k + two heads, due to, as I found out eventually, to a pourous block, thats a lot of gaskets. Also the heater was as good as useless, and a good heater is one of my main priorities. But.....I may be tempted to go and look at this one, Plymouth is only about 80 miles from here.

The 406 is as you say not as big as the 405, one of which I have also owned and still reckon they are a brilliant car, best secondhand value on the market. I have bought several for other people, one of which is now in france.....but, I am very fussy, and the seats are to short in them, as they are in the 406. Once you have had an XM nothing else is good enough...except perhaps another CX!

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 11 Apr 2006, 22:23

I have to agree about the 405 seats... not the most comfortable. I'm thinking of fitting BX GTI seats to mine...

Your CX would have been a DTR Turbo 2 then, with the infamous recycled steel block. It's very noticeable that the majority of TurboDiesel CX's that survive are either Turbo 1, or are Turbo 2 with a replacement (and hence brand new metal) block.

I honestly don't think you'll find another big comfy estate car. Even a neighbours' Merc e-class estate seems no bigger than my 405. (well, it is, but it's all bonnet)

The other thing to notice is that most manufacturers don't make an estate of their largest cars. The 405/406 for instance.... there's no 605/607 estate. Same for the mercedes range. You can get an e-class estate, but nothing bigger. (except of course the idiot ML-thingies, and the V (van) class)

Citroen used to be unique in this, making their biggest car as an estate too.... I wonder if we'll ever see a C6 estate? Personally, I doubt it, as that market is catered for with the C8.

BonceChops · Unread post by **BonceChops** » 11 Apr 2006, 22:49

fastandfurryous wrote:It's very noticeable that the majority of TurboDiesel CX's that survive are either Turbo 1, or are Turbo 2 with a replacement (and hence brand new metal) block.

I am interested as to what you class brand new metal is. Are engine blocks steel or cast iron? I work in a cast iron foundry, we actually make some brake discs and drums so they are definately made of cast iron. All our metal comes in the form of scrap steel and cast iron. Ofcuts from big I sections and other large scrap. We even get scrap engine blocks, cylinder heads and crankshafts sometimes. After melting the metal is treated with the correct additives to produce the correct grade of metal for the product being cast. I would guess that the porous engine blocks in question were produced to a poor standard or to an incorrect specification.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 11 Apr 2006, 23:06

Fastandfurious - Mine was a non intercooled Turbo 1? I am hoping this one is a Turbo 2. as its a couple of years newer. Mine was C277MAM but I think was one of the last non intercooled. The Turbo 2. is 120 bhp at 3,600 rpm. Quite something for the mid '80s.

BonceChops - The offending blocks were made from recycled metal, I was going to say steel but I assume they were cast iron. After continual head gasket failure I eventually took the engine out and had the block machined. About 15k later the gasket went again - in the same place! It didnt actually blow, it just leaked with little evidence of damage to the gasket.

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 11 Apr 2006, 23:52

Peter.N. wrote:Mine was a non intercooled Turbo 1? I think was one of the last non intercooled.

I'm guessing that the transition to appaling quality cast iron occured slightly before the change from 95hp non-intercooled to 120hp intercooled then!

The problem was indeed awful quality cast iron. It was full of inclusions of all manner of dross, which if you were unlucky, dissolved and broke up, making the block porus.

And it would appear that PSA did not learn from this fiasco. I remember talking to a Pug dealer in Southampton many years ago, and him showing me a 1993-ish 405TD they had in with apparent head gasket failure.

What had actually happened was that the abysmal quality casting of the block had gone porus just below the deck height (head gasket surface) and you could see a line of corrosion around the bore, about 3-5mm down from the surface...... exactly the same as happened with the CX M25 engines 6 years previous.

Fella · Unread post by **Fella** » 19 Apr 2006, 20:04

Had XM 2.1 td auto exclusive which I thought had everything lovely car to drive and great for long distance cruising and economical with it great hill climber on continent I thought it could not be bettered and searched for a car with similar charactaristics looked and tried mercs, audis but finished up with a C5 exslusive estate with 2.2 hdi auto which really has everything and everone who has sat in always comment on quality and feel of car. Have had minor problems with ESP fault which resets and other than anti pollution refill being very expensive cannot fault it

French Car Forum

C5 v XM Has anyone owned both?

XM v C5 Have owned both