The most reliable cars!

[Honda]

I am here, first of all, because I like Citroens too! 8) Especially the innovative DS. Nowdays Citroens are not innovative.
I've traveled in 3 DS's so far. One of them (a DS21 in perfect shape) had the best suspension I've tried in any car (if we don't consider the *tremendous* body-roll ). You just couldn't feel any bump/hole of the road! Magic floating sensation. XM, Xantia or C5, altough the best on their class don't get even close to the DS.
I have also posted here because I own a Xantia HDi (that I've just sold). It was very comfortable and economic. But not innovative, by any means, neither reliable.
Found out some were seeking a reliable car, and thought useful to warn members french and italian cars are not reliable!

There is no point in the existence of a forum like this for Honda cars, as Honda's don't keep breaking year in year out like a french car.
A Honda may be a good idea for those who want to concentrate in other aspects of life, like travel and enjoying the car, and be sure that it won't let you down in any occasion. NO FAIL

I understand the other side of the coin and the perspective of some members. Last week I was talking to a Honda mechanic who confessed me he was considering going back to Renault. At Honda he just changes fluids and filters. There are no complications, no challenge in repairing, no fun. A Honda mechanic has a monotonous job!

[mezuk04]

I think it was the way in which your post was implying, personally reading it i found it to be offensive and to be honest had no place on the boards and im hoping that the moderators will 'lock' the thread as it doesnt have any place here.

Although I dont think you were trying to be completely inconsiderate i do feel that surely you had an inkling as to the response you may have received which i am in agreement with all the other posts.

It was an unnecessary and a bit of a silly thing to post

Regards
Chris

[Homer]

Found out some were seeking a reliable car, and thought useful to warn members french and italian cars are not reliable!

Compared with what?

I think you'll find any Citroen made in the last 20 years is much more reliable than a 1970's Datsun was when it was brand new.

These days all cars are relable, just some are more reliable than others. I have been arond long enough to remember the days when you would get up on a morning not knowing if your car (any make) would start and if it did start you couldn't be certain it would get you to the end of your journey without intervention from the full toolkit and set of spares you carried in the boot.

When did you last see anyone with the bonnet up liberally spraying WD40 (or coldstart if you were rich) around the engine bay?

[Honda]

I am not sure engines are getting more reliable.

- Take in consideration that nowdays oils have much better quality allowing for less piston friction over time.
- Many old engines were built with "over-kill" techniques. Nowdays low weight is the primal factor in engine design.
- More power extracted from recent engines allows for more stress.
- Modern cars seem to have more electronic failures than older cars had electric malfunctions. Also, these electronic problems are very expensive to fix, and sometimes do not allow the engine to start.
- Have seen several old petrol engines reach the 500.000kms and old diesel cars reach the 1.000.000kms. Not Citroen's, I'me afraid, since Citoen never made reliable cars. Not even the amazing DS.

[Kowalski]

I am not sure engines are getting more reliable.

- Take in consideration that nowdays oils have much better quality allowing for less piston friction over time.
- Many old engines were built with "over-kill" techniques. Nowdays low weight is the primal factor in engine design.
- More power extracted from recent engines allows for more stress.
- Modern cars seem to have more electronic failures than older cars had electric malfunctions. Also, these electronic problems are very expensive to fix, and sometimes do not allow the engine to start.
- Have seen several old petrol engines reach the 500.000kms and old diesel cars reach the 1.000.000kms. Not Citroen's, I'me afraid, since Citoen never made reliable cars. Not even the amazing DS.

Take into consideration, materials have improved, electronics have improved (heard of knock sensors?), designs have improved and oils have improved too.

Now you can have more power out of a newer engine without any loss of life over an older engine. Over engineering things doesn't always make them last longer for example if you make a moving part heavy it will need bigger bearings than a smaller lighter part. It will create more vibration too, which can cause other things to fail.

Do you remember distributers and points? How about carburetters with chokes? Vacuum operated ignition advance? I think modern electronics are a big step forwards over all of that. Emissions have come down, fuel consumption has come down, noise has come down whilst reliablity and performance have gone up.

And if you think that Citroen can't make reliable cars that can cover big mileages have a read of this post.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... php?t=2685

There is more than one Citroen with that sort of age and mileage running around today. How many Hondas of that age are running around? Not many I'd expect, the way their Rover build quality makes them rust.

[Honda]

I agree entirely engines are now much better than before. I just don't think there was a relevant change in reliability.

Every one konws real Hondas are manufactured and assembled in Japan. Those cars are on an entirely different class.

[Homer]

- Modern cars seem to have more electronic failures than older cars had electric malfunctions. Also, these electronic problems are very expensive to fix, and sometimes do not allow the engine to start.

I don't really think so.

I clearly remember my father fiddling beneath the bonnet of a less than 3yr old car, fettling plugs and points on an almost weekly basis. And then there was the rust. Anything over 3 years old was considered a banger.

Nowadays even a French car comes with a 3 year warranty and it's very unlikely you will suffer such a major failure for the first ten years of a cars life.
If you do then:

The Honda will be scrap because the repair will be more than the car is worth.

The Citroen will repairable, (probably with a couple of bits of blu-tack and some stickytape ).

Comparing reliablility of modern cars is really comparing the very very good with the very very very good.

[Kowalski]

Every one konws real Hondas are manufactured and assembled in Japan. Those cars are on an entirely different class.

So yours isn't a proper Honda then. Honda has a plant in Swindon that makes the Accord for the European market.

Google found this...
http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/honda_c ... _10_02.asp

You will probably find that there is very little difference between cars produced in Japan and those produced in the UK. Honda, like other succesful manufacturers has very stringent standards on quality, if they produce the same product in two different factories it is the same product.

[Honda]

So yours isn't a proper Honda then. Honda has a plant in Swindon that makes the Accord for the European market.

Mine was built in Japan, therefore I must conclude the UK factory is not supplying all the Accords for the Europeam market.

You will probably find that there is very little difference between cars produced in Japan and those produced in the UK. Honda, like other succesful manufacturers has very stringent standards on quality, if they produce the same product in two different factories it is the same product.

Theorically, yes. But this is one of those things where reality proves to be rather different from theory.
Also, if you look at two cars (made in Japan and UK) you can spot lots of differences in parts. It seems UK and Japan factories use local suppliers for most parts.
Anothr major difference I can spot between a japanese and british Civic is the assembly precision where there is a human factor.
I would say UK Honda workers are not in the same league as Aston Martin ones...

[martyhopkirk]

Every one konws real Hondas are manufactured and assembled in Japan. Those cars are on an entirely different class.

Honda - that little known FRENCH car manufacturer!

[Sid Boggle]

This topic was locked, a discussion has taken place amongst the Admins and Mods, and we have decided to unlock it. However, we will be keeping an eye on the topic. No problem with free speech, but it is at the end of the day a forum for discussing French cars. We feel that although French cars always seem to do appallingly in these Top Gear, Auto Express JD Power reliability tests, most owners actually seem to get fairly good reliability, high mileages, and most importantly enjoy their cars and the experience. Sometimes!

[Homer]

Mine was built in Japan, therefore I must conclude the UK factory is not supplying all the Accords for the Europeam market.
.......
Also, if you look at two cars (made in Japan and UK) you can spot lots of differences in parts.

Sounds like you have a grey import, make sure your insurance company knows. The fact that they do have different parts can make them (even) more expensive to repair.

[Honda]

Yes, it will be harder to fix in Europe. Complex parts (injection and others) will come from Japan.
However I don't expect any malfunction in the next 10 years.

I agree Citroens are very easy and cheap to fix. The problem is that you have to do it so often.

[Decca]

Having had french cars over many years and usually keeping them for a long time, I would have to say that generally they are reliable cars that will last for a long time and rack up high mileages. I have had good runs out of all my cars. My present 405 has 206000klms on it with the main expense being a new radiator and heater matrix/core.

A jap car will have good fit and finish ( and maybe no dash rattles) but the french car will have good chassis dynamics and it will have robust running gear that will give it longevity. Bear in mind that I am generalising here.

Model changeover is quicker with the Asian offerings. My 405 has been replaced by the 406 Series 1 & 2 and the 407. How many Honda Civics or Toyota Corolla models have we had in the same period?

I enjoy driving my Peugeot because it's different, in a better way, whereas if I was in a Honda/Toyota/ Nissan/Hyundai etc . I would be just going from A to B in one of the boring lookalike riceburners


Decca

[Paul Mi16]

I had a relative who was a prisoner of war held by the Japanese. After describing his experiences about the Burma railroad my concious could never allow me to buy a Japanese car no matter how reliable they are. Shame too many people forget or choose to ignore this....