xantia 1.9td RUFF idle / cuts out

deano · Unread post by **deano** » 13 Feb 2006, 19:47

Hi

got a xantia 1.9td not been run for about 3-4 weeks started first time, but having done about 3miles down the road now ticks over / runs like a petrol that's missing - cuts out at idle. having very little experiance of diesels whats could be wrong / what should i be checking?

TIA

Deano

deano · Unread post by **deano** » 13 Feb 2006, 20:13

the other thing i forgot to mention is that when it does run, the ehaust smoke is quite white.

cheers
deano

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 13 Feb 2006, 20:39

Give it a chance to preheat well before starting. Let the glow timer time out 3-5 times then instantly flick the starter when the lamp is out last time.

If that makes no difference it could be dead glowplugs. These are the small "sparkplugs" seen interconnected by a heavy wire.

Unscrew the wire and check that a heavy current can flow thru the glow plug. The glow plug has (must have !) a very low ohmic resistance - approx 1 ohm which resembles a short circuit - to chassis/engine earth.
Take an old headlamp bulb - connect one sid of this to battery plus - then earth the other side of the bulb by touching the tip of each glowplug in turn.
The bulb should light dazzling bright on each and every glow plug. If not the glowplug is dead.

There is proof you get best result using BERU branded glowplugs - as Citroen specifies these as original parts. Makes a world of difference on easy starting.
New glowplugs are approx 6quid each.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 13 Feb 2006, 22:09

Could also be due to a blocked fuel filter, have you changed it lately?

deano · Unread post by **deano** » 13 Feb 2006, 22:43

Hi guys

thanks for the replys will check out the glow pugs just in case. The fuel filter was changed about 4kmiles ago

but i think you could be right as after the engine has ran the hand fuel "bulb" is not very pressurised at all and takes about 5-8 squeezes before it gets firm. Also the blead pipe off the front fuel filter when turned nothing comes out of it untill atleast the 4th or 5th squeeze of the manual hand primer.

Cheers
Deano

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 13 Feb 2006, 22:55

Sounds as though could have an air leak, check all the fuel feed connections and leak off pipes, and check fuel filter for tightness. Also check that the breather in your fuel filler cap has not become blocked, when you have the problem, undo the cap and see if there is an inrush of air.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 13 Feb 2006, 23:21

Can I assume that this xantia has a mechanical injection pump, not the electronic 'Epic' pump or its Bosch equivalent?

If so as I understand what happened is that you started it without trouble and after it had been driven 3 miles the problems occurred?

The reason I ask is that if this is the sequence it cannot be glowplugs as they'd done their job for the initial start and would have been out of operation less than a minute after the start.

I must say it sounds like air in the system to me. If you have a Bosch pump it could be some part of the leakoff pipework has failed (gone hard and fractured with the vibration?) If its a Roto-diesel/CAV/Lucas this won't be the problem as if the leakoff system fails it just leaks and smells.

As the car has been standing then driven I'd look first at any fuel pipework that flexes - as it may have hardened and then cracked when suddenly subjected to vibration. There are some at the back of the engine.

Incidentally is there plenty of fuel in the tank? - remember the fuel will slosh around and air can get in when the fuel runs away from the pickup. Another silly possibility if it was VERY cold (ie well below freezing) is that the fuel has waxed. Winter fuel has additives to prevent waxing, summer fuel does not. If the fuel was summer fuel it may have been chilled during the run and the wax produced eventually clogged the filter. On warming up it will slowly disperse. The filter bowl should be heated which should prevent this problem.

jeremy

deano · Unread post by **deano** » 14 Feb 2006, 11:11

Hi

thanks for that post Jeremy

have checked the fuel filter and appears to ok, have ordered another one to be on the safe side.

Having had a look this morning in the light i noticed that there is a (return?) pipe that is clear that runs from the fuel filter housing to the pump, this has got lots of air bubbles in it, which i assume is not normal. So would i be correct in thinking air must be getting in from either the fuel filter or fuel line from the tank?

Cheers
Deano

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 14 Feb 2006, 12:52

The fuel pipes that run down the bulkhead are prone to hardening and cracking. I've had to replace one set of these on a Xantia. There are two pipes one is suction (from tank to primer bulb to fuel filter) and a return (from injection pump back to the tank). They come as a pair complete with bends moulded in.

8304 · Unread post by **8304** » 14 Feb 2006, 15:14

mmmm intersting,

my zx is lumpy on start up and pushes out white smoke, i have suspected that it is down to air in the fuel but this thread has confirmed it in my mind. I think the way forward is a fuel system re-pipe - all of the fuel pipes under the bonnet have been rep-laced along with the leak-off pipes so i will change the pipes running back to the tank next.

Are they still available from citroen or can you get them elsewhere????

cheers

alastair.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 14 Feb 2006, 15:19

Yes - someone has fitted the clear pipe to enable them to eliminate air from the system - and air there will cause the problems. It may be pipes - can also be a badly fitting filter top or the thermostat in the side of it connected into the fuel heater system. There are posts on here on these topics.

Tedious but not terminal!

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 14 Feb 2006, 15:33

My TD Xantia now has a clear (inlet) pipe from filter to injection pump. The car runs well, and this pipe is never 100% fuel, air bubbles are seen in there. However, although mine runs will it doesnt start well after a few days, plugs are fine. Certain this is due to low fuel pressure (bulb has same symtons as yours). I am going to check filter housing for leaks...

also could be worth fitting a spare good bulb, to try and eliminate problems with one way valve inside... expensive part tho..

John

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 14 Feb 2006, 15:59

ALL diesels should start and run by simply following the heating procedure once and turning the key for a couple of revolutions. They should then run without smoke at a slightly increased but smooth idle. They should NOT need repeated heating, use of the acelerator, easy start or anything else. If they don't behave like this then there is something wrong - air, glowplugs being the most likely culprits.

Yes they get old and become a bit more difficult but we're talking extreme old age and low compression, and usually crankcase fuming, oil all over the place and so on.

deano · Unread post by **deano** » 15 Feb 2006, 19:53

Hi

cheers for the replys, any one got any recomedations of where to get the pipes from? as i don't seem to be able to find them of GFS or Eurocarparts.

cheers
Deano

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 16 Feb 2006, 17:25

deano wrote:Hi

cheers for the replys, any one got any recomedations of where to get the pipes from? as i don't seem to be able to find them of GFS or Eurocarparts.

cheers
Deano

The pipes down the bulkhead are one of those dealer only items, the price wasn't too bad (as I remember) but they're more expensive than bog standard hose because they've got bends mouled into them.