MIG welding

ralph · Unread post by **ralph** » 12 Dec 2005, 12:13

Can anyone give me any advice about how to get started MIG welding?
Do I need to get on a course, or would I be safe enough getting a MIG, a book, and teaching myself?
I tried getting on a course of nightclasses at my local FE college (Bradford College), but it was full, and I understand all the places get taken up by apprentice mechanics/bodyshop guys.
My ZX will die without some attention (there's the French car link, moderators).

Stinkwheel · Unread post by **Stinkwheel** » 12 Dec 2005, 13:02

you can learn yourself but being taught/shown sure helps.

I learnt myself, my welding is strong enough and can be made tidy but to a pro looks awful.

Best advice, get the best quality welder you can afford, the gear makes a huge difference with MIG welding.

I've used SIP units in the past but now have a Cebora/Snap on ubit which is much much easier.

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 12 Dec 2005, 13:10

I bought a MIG about 20 years ago when they first became cheaply available, there was no such thing as a DIY welding course so I had to just plug it in and practice on scrap bits and pieces.It isn't that difficult to pick up- the main mistake beginners make is to not keep the torch moving fast enough, and end up blowing holes in the metal :

You need to balance the speed you go at with the wire speed and the metal thickness- this only comes with lots of practice: don't start straight in on the car!!!

Had a course been available booking myself onto one would have been a lot better, however!!

To sum it up, if you can't get on a course, then practice,practice,practice..........and ALWAYS use the face shield- arc eye is excruciating

!!!!!!!!!

406 V6 · Unread post by **406 V6** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:01

Not only a face shield, but also get all you body parts covered with clothing, unless you want an instant tan on your skin

(i do i know this?

)

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:17

This is definately starting to look like amateur welder's corner!! Been put off yet????

Don't worry, the smell of burning clothes, trim, and flesh soon will!!!

I'm surprised it hasn't been banned......

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 12 Dec 2005, 15:12

Mig is pretty easy to learn. If you start off with a selection of offcuts of steel, varying thicknesses etc, and weld them together, after half a day of that you'll have it worked out.

ACTIVE8 · Unread post by **ACTIVE8** » 12 Dec 2005, 15:48

Kowalski wrote:Mig is pretty easy to learn. If you start off with a selection of offcuts of steel, varying thicknesses etc, and weld them together, after half a day of that you'll have it worked out.

I agree MIG welding is relatively easy to learn, and it's all about practice, lots of practice.

As Kowalski said use some offcuts, and carry out work on some test pieces, so you can learn the technique. It should also be noted that if you are inside in a well ventilated garage/workspace a better weld can be achieved.

Why ?

Well when you are inside you don't get the weather affecting your work so easily, I.E. a sudden gush of wind blowing away the gas shield from the work area.

Also, being inside also helps the safety of others who could accidently look the wrong way, and get "Arc Eye."

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 12 Dec 2005, 16:21

I have to disagree. Mig welding to any decent standard is an artform. Half a day spent with a welder and some scrap will mean you can stick two bits of scrap together, and even then the weld will probably have very little penetration.

A vehicle is actually one of the most difficult things to weld, as you have to contend with differing torch angles, metal contaminants, very thin metal, etc etc... It took me a good few years of welding patches onto non-structural parts of cars to get my welding to anywhere near the standard needed for a good quality, decent, safe weld.

Which doesn't mean that garages can do decent weld repairs either. Some of the welding I've seen on cars in the past is just lethal. welds you can just pull off with a screwdriver are all-too common.

A decent weld will have melted the parent material to the point that it has *almost* blown through, but then re-frozen. Very hard to achieve.

matt · Unread post by **matt** » 12 Dec 2005, 16:40

I have owned a sealey mig for the last 12 years and its been fine,100 to 150 amp i should go for and if your doing a lot of work try and get hold of the large refillable c02 bottles as the small disposable ones start getting a bit expensive.When welding thin sheet dont expect to get a long ''run'' as it will just blow through just do short bursts so its doesnt get too hot also the quality of the weld can depend on the direction of the torch,usually with mig you move forward but try going backwards if you know what i mean! One last thing-Get comfortable-you will weld better!

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 12 Dec 2005, 18:06

Mig welding to any decent standard is an artform

I'll have to agree on that!! I've been doing it for 20 years, and its easy enough to get a weld that'll pass an MOT, but its rare that I get as neat a finish as a pro does- and I've got a Vitesse, so I'm doing lots of it!!

The problem is, of course, that most domestic welding is done on thin rusty metal at the side of the road on a windy Saturday afternoon- far from ideal!!

As everyone knows, of course, the moment you get the MIG out, the wind springs up....

G4EIY · Unread post by **G4EIY** » 12 Dec 2005, 20:05

Another thing to note, try and cut out the rust metal, and always give the area where the weld will be a good clean, so the metal is bright.

If it isn't, then the weld will be inferior.

Best of luck

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 12 Dec 2005, 20:22

Haynes publish a book on welding in general which does deal with MIG and there are others available.

Practice improves your welding and eventually you'll stop blowing holes everywhere.

The art of car welding is to try and work out how it was built in the first place and to get joints in the original places. Rusted metal must be cut well back otherwise you are left with bits that just burn as they are too thin. 1mm or 20 gauge (little bit thinner) is the thinnest you will be able to do and I try to make patches out of 18 gauge which is a bit easier to weld.

A gasless MIG uses a thicker wire with a flux in it but this is probably too hot for car bodywork.

Most of your fun will be cutting and shaping patches so a good collection of snips and things will be useful.

Nice job when you've finished it!

Unread post by **alan s** » 12 Dec 2005, 21:10

jeremy wrote:Haynes publish a book on welding in general which does deal with MIG and there are others available.

Please don't tell me there's any "Welding is the reversal of cutting" quotes in the book.

Alan S

Stinkwheel · Unread post by **Stinkwheel** » 12 Dec 2005, 22:28

With reference to gasless mig............

Will do car bodywork OK, harder to get a decent flow but with practice can be done. Good for outside work as you do not have to worry about the sheilding gas being blown away.

I cannot stress enough the equipment makes a difference a good unit will make a passable welder be able to weld quite well. Or if you a re new to it, you will get better results with a better welder, cos' it isnt as hard to learn.

I use 16 gauge for repairs on sills etc and 18 for everything else, I think 20 is too thin for any car body repairs, by welding you are creating a weak spot, you want the new stuff you put in to be stronger.

And as fastandyfurious says above, some MOT garages cant weld for toffee, my wife had a nissan welded by a local place as i did not have time, it was attrocious, if we had been keeping the car i would have cut it out and done it again.

ralph · Unread post by **ralph** » 13 Dec 2005, 11:26

Thanks for the advice, gents. So Santa needs to bring me a posh welder, a comfy chair, and lots of scrap iron.

I'm not put off BX Bodger - but I think I'll give attempting repairs on the ZX a miss. I bought it with 8 months' MoT and it had been crashed and poorly repaired by a previous owner. The offside inner wing (where they all go) is like wet cardboard, and both sills (where they never go) have large patches welded on. The car drove straight and pulled up straight, and has done the job, but it's surplus now.
As ever, it's a shame because the old 1.9 XUD still goes like a train.