Xantia stuck on its knees

avinit · Unread post by **avinit** » 21 Nov 2005, 23:24

Was talking to some friends who have an L reg Xantia which nobody has succeeded in fixing. Apparently the back goes up, front doesnt. Sounds simple enough!

A local garage who advertise as cit specialists had it for a while but apparently couldnt do anything.

Its a 1.6(?) petrol saloon.

I will ask the owners to log on here to see the replies.

Thanks

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 22 Nov 2005, 08:39

It would be nice to know what the "cit specialist" has tried since it sounds like a simple height corrector issue.

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 22 Nov 2005, 11:29

I hope you have access to a 4 post hoist or a pit, as you won't even be able drive the front of the car up onto a typical pair of car ramps with the nose of the car right down, and the height corrector is right at the back of the front suspension chassis in the most awkward place imaginable. (Says he who has recently removed and refitted one....

)

Although access to the height corrector (and it's associated piping) is rather difficult, the actual problem isn't likely to be very serious, especially if the rear suspension is operating ok. (Which shows normal system pressure is probably available, no leaks, etc)

The first thing to check is whether the manual height control lever in the centre console has any effect on the front height - if you can get it to go up by putting the height lever in the fully up position (and waiting a couple of minutes, as the front probably has no pressure in it initially, which can take a long time to pressurize) then it could just be the plastic linkage I referenced in a recent thread that has broken/popped off, which prevents automatic height correction from working.

Someone has also posted a picture of the height corrector mechanism in that thread.

Regards,
Simon

state-it · Unread post by **state-it** » 23 Nov 2005, 22:32

Thanks for posting the query for us, avinit, and directing us here.

Used to use this one or two years ago when it was Andyspares...

Anyway...

Broke down in Scotland, 2 garages (non-Citroen) tried and failed to fix it. One or both may have made it worse. What may have made things worse before it got to a garage was driving it from Burnley to Castle Douglas flat out when, in hindsight, something went dicky with the suspension in Burnley. The ride was as hard and bumpy as hell. Got to destination, parked up, slept, woke up, looked at car, and then realised... ooo-errr.

Towed back south of the border to the local indie Citroen garage we use. He's had it up on a four-poster, replaced the height corrector as far as I know, but it didn't fix it. He gave up after loads of trying and gave in. Gave us the car back without charging, in fact.

The first Scots mechanic tried didn't charge us either, except for the hydraulic oil he'd used - and he'd overfilled the system to overflowing. The second Scots mechanic reckoned he could fix it, and 2 days later he gave us the car back in a state of breakdown. Not just the car, but him. He said he never wanted to see it again and wouldn't even tell us what he'd done.

Current state is rear of car up, front right down. It was both ends down before the last mechanic gave it a go. The front doesn't budge an inch no matter what height setting it's on.

Will pick his brains on exactly what he did when have the time to. He's fixed the suspension on this car before perfectly well, but this time he couldn't.

The overriding factor is whether the car is worth forking cash out on to fix when it's not worth that much anyway...

All (polite) suggestions considered.

Cheers.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 24 Nov 2005, 08:09

L reg Xantia is essentially the same as a BX and the system is that the front height is controlled by a valve which is operated by the anti-roll bar. You know you have hydraulic pressure (light goes out! and back raises) so if it isn't rising it isn't getting the right message from the height controller.

So either the controller isn't connected (I think it should be connected by the infamous plastic link) or the valve isn't working. The valve has been changed (they seldom go wrong giving this problem) and the fault persists. There may be a possibility of getting the pipes on incorrectly (and trying to feed it from a return!) and I'm sure Simon can say if this is possible. Otherwise if its connected correctly - is the operating linkage in place and has its adjustment been tampered with.

Flat spheres will affect the ride but not the height, defective struts would leak so badly that the return pipes would probably blow off.

I assume there are no major leaks. Its also worth having a look at the supply pipe to ensure it hasn't struck something and been flattened. This would have had to happen before the junction linking the two struts.

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 24 Nov 2005, 08:32

jeremy wrote:L reg Xantia is essentially the same as a BX and the system is that the front height is controlled by a valve which is operated by the anti-roll bar. You know you have hydraulic pressure (light goes out! and back raises) so if it isn't rising it isn't getting the right message from the height controller.

So either the controller isn't connected (I think it should be connected by the infamous plastic link) or the valve isn't working. The valve has been changed (they seldom go wrong giving this problem) and the fault persists. There may be a possibility of getting the pipes on incorrectly (and trying to feed it from a return!) and I'm sure Simon can say if this is possible. Otherwise if its connected correctly - is the operating linkage in place and has its adjustment been tampered with.

It's most definately possible! One of our forum members accidentially mixed up the HP inlet and the overflow pipes, its very easy to do as they're right next to each other. (I think it was Pete, so he might like to comment on that)

The symptom of that is if the suspension is down it will tend to try and stay down, and if it is up it will try to stay up - positive feedback instead of negative.

Assuming the car is depressurized to begin with, it will try to stay down.

However the manual height control should still work (assuming its still connected) except it will work backwards, and after returning the control to the middle the height will stay at the nearest end of the suspension travel. (Right up or right down)

Height correctors are incredibly simple and reliable, (the only thing that goes wrong with them is they can get clogged with grit) and with all due respect to the "mechanics" that have been having a look at the car, it sounds to me like they don't know what they're doing. (At least when it comes to Citroen hydraulics....)

If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say that the first mechanic mixed up the two pipes, and everyone that has looked at it since has overlooked the error, as it is probably not something they've encountered before.

In any case the first thing I'd try is the manual override - run the engine and set the height control lever right up, and wait a few minutes to see if it will lift at the faulty end. If not, set the manual control lever right DOWN, and wait a few minutes.

If it will lift, but the manual height control lever is working in reverse then you know the two pipes are mixed up and need reversing. (The two next to each other)

Caution: in this condition it will be difficult to safely depressurize the suspension, since the control is working backwards, and yet anti-sink valves need the main system pressure to be available to allow the suspension to depressurize.

EG, you need to set the lever down to depressurize the back but that will make the front go up.

Probably the only way to get around that would be to set the lever such that the front is fully down, then losen the manual override clamp where it connects to the height corrector and because the height corrector is piped backwards it will stay in the down mode while you then move the lever to depressurize the other end as normal. A bit fiddly.

If the manual control lever is working the right way around but the automatic height correction in the middle setting isn't working, check the plastic link is connected and the rollbar clamp is tight. It's possible that its MILES out of adjustment, so trying to perform a normal height adjustment might be in order.

If you're still not getting any joy, you need to have a look at the linkage, and try manually operating it - slacken the rollbar clamp, and push the plastic link one way or the other - it only moves about 2mm each way so don't push too hard, and be patient as the response is slow.

Of course at all times work like this should be done with the car safely on wheel ramps or a hoist or over a pit so you don't get squashed.

One other possibility is a faulty anti-sink valve, but I don't think its very likely.

Edit: Opps, just noticed you said the manual height lever wasn't working. It's possible that as well as possibly being piped back to front that the linkages might be completely out of adjustment.

First of all losen the rollbar clamp, in case that is miles off, and holding the height corrector forced too far one way. Then set the manual height lever to the middle and look over the height corrector bracket from behind (nearly impossible without a hoist) and you will see a round peg in an elongated slot near the righthand side.

This peg should be in the middle in this condition - if its not, loosen the bolt clamping the manual override control shaft (from the centre console of the car) and adjust it until the peg is in the middle, then retighten.

This gets the manual control linkage back at the right place. Now try using the manual height lever as described above - remember to try it BOTH ways just in case the pipes are reversed.

If you find you can now make the car lift, and its not working in reverse, set it to the right ride height by nudging the lever and finally retighten the rollbar clamp and check the normal height correction action.

Regards,
Simon

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 24 Nov 2005, 08:55

the other posible fault might be who ever looked at it first might have damaged the pipe seal,so you have a lump of seal bloking the HC
regards malcolm

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 24 Nov 2005, 09:11

This is a L reg car and shouldn't have anti-sink. Simple check is the number of pump outlets - it should only have one, anti-sink cars have 2.

state-it · Unread post by **state-it** » 24 Nov 2005, 20:40

Thanks guys,

Will follow up your pointers at the weekend...unfortunately non-work-related important things like a blooming Xantia stuck nose down outside our house have to wait till then.

At least being a Xantia it's not rusting away while it's in it's state of torpor!

Many thanks to you all.