C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

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lancia58
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C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

Hi

Lately I have some problem with my C4 with 1.6 THP engine. It all started when I had to change the O-ring/Seals of the oil cooler due to oil leaks. After that the mechanic washed the bottom of the engine. When I started the engine it was a very rough idle and the check engine light started to blink. Then the mechanic used and air pressure hose to dry the engine bay and next time I started the engine at idle was OK. Two weeks later when I started the car the idle was very very rough and the check engine light started to blink. I turned the car off and on and it drove OK. This phenomenon occurred from time to time. I hooked a Lexia and found that the HPFP ( high pressure fuel pump ) is faulty. I replaced the pump and it looked like the problem is sorted but the turbo did not engaged resulted in a sever lack of engine power. At the same time found that I have to replace the oil pipe of the turbo , it leaked badly from the nipple. To do the job I had to detach the catalytic converter to have access to the pipe other end that is hooked to the engine block. While doing that I shorted for a very short while ( 0.5 second ) the alternator to the ground. After replacing the pipe and put everything back the car started. I drove around 10 kilometers ( turbo still did not engaged ) and then when I stopped I felt a slight bang from the automatic gear ( AL4) . From my experience this happens when the alternator is defective , I suspected that shorting the alternator to ground broke the regulator . I parked the car at my perking lot . After couple of hours I started the car and parked in a public parking next to my house. At the next day in the morning I wanted to start the car but I could not. From time to time it started for 0.5 second and stopped. I tried to start it while injected carburetor cleaner spray to the inlet of the air filter but the engine still didn't start.

I hooked the Lexia again and checked the fuel pressure before starting the car and it was 6 bar , this is OK as this is the pressure build by the electric fuel pump. I measured the fuel pressure when trying to start the car and it rose to 30-40 bar that is OK. By that I checked the new HPFP and that fuel arrives to the pump inlet. I then checked that the coils are OK and that there is a trigger to a spark by hooking to each coil a plug and shorting its body to engine and saw sparks when trying to start the engine. Just to mention that when I replaced the turbo oil pipe I also replaced the air filter. I hooked a Lexia and found the following error "inlet camshaft dephasing coherence" error code P011. I looked over the internet and found out that it may be related to the solenoid that controls the variable valve timing ( V V T ) , but even if the solenoid is defective it should not prevent from the engine to start. Just as a try I replaced the camshaft sensor with two other used I had but nothing changed

Is there any parameter that can be displayed by the Lexia that I should check to get a clue while the engine does not start ? Any other ides ?

Thanks
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
lancia58
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

Could it be relayed to faulty fuse box ? I know that it quite common problem in the MK 1 C4

Thank
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Zohar, you have a Lexia, but what you need to do is a Global Test and report all the codes you are getting. I would not rely solely on the fault code explanations you get from the internet, as they can vary according to manufacturer and have slightly different meanings depending on car model, engine and injection system used.

If you suspect the alternator is fried and is not charging the battery - you may have a low power condition which can affect many systems. Have you checked the battery charge with a multimeter?
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Marc
lancia58
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

Marc,

As the car do not start I can not check the charging. I used jumpers and connect it to my other C4 while its engine was running and it still did not start.

Anyway I'll do the global test

Thanks
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
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GiveMeABreak
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Fine - I just meant to check the state of the battery charge as it is (I appreciate you can't test the actual charging without the car running). But seems as you have jumped it - then you have another issue. Good advice to always disconnect the battery terminals when doing any work on the circuits as you can easily fry a circuit if not careful.... which I suspect you may have done.
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Marc
lancia58
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

I used a contact cleaning spray to clean all connectors plugged onto the fuse box ( I detached the battery "+" terminal before ). Did this almost on any connector in the engine bay. Anyway I plug the Lexia and do a global test
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
lancia58
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Posts: 711
Joined: 30 Nov 2010, 07:02
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Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

I did a global test got the following

1) Transponder aerial ( 0C83 )
Electronic immobilizer

The car is fitted with an aftermarket keypad ( anti theft device ) that in order to start the engine the correct code should be keyed in, if a wrong code is entered the above errors are inserted to the fault log. I have the
same device on the other C4 I have. I checked the fault log of the other C4 and the above faults are logged and I Can start the other C4. So I guess these faults are not the cause for the problem

2) Injector control 1 short circuit to + ( code P262 ) - This was logged 4 times - I have seen it before I couldn't start the engine right after the mechanic washed the bottom of the engine and it ran erratically right after this.
( I described this at my first post for this thread.


This all I have maybe the above will give a hint to the problem I have


Thanks
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
lancia58
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Joined: 30 Nov 2010, 07:02
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My Cars: Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
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Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
x 8

Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by lancia58 »

Saw this thread that may indicated that it is indeed the fuse box

viewtopic.php?t=56690
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
lancia58
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 711
Joined: 30 Nov 2010, 07:02
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My Cars: Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
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Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
x 8

Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start - solved

Post by lancia58 »

Hi

It turns out that it was wrong timing. The compression was 80 psi instead of 190 on two cylinders due the wrong timing.
After couple of day in the garage the mechanic opened the valve cover and found out that the timing chain slipped one or two teeth. He checked every thing concerned with the timing i.e chain, tensioner ,chain guides, timing pinion all look OK. This mechanic has a lot of experience with the THP engine and he can not explain why it happened . I asked him if he thinks that the timing gear should be replaced and he said no. BTW the timing gear was replaced on 20,000 KM on Citroen expenses to the new tensioner , chain and guides ( car has now 70,000 KM ). Anyone had an Idea what can cause it ? Should I change the timing gear ?
Two days before this happened I changed the high pressure fuel pump. Before I changed it it happened couple of times that when I start the car in the morning the engine was very rough ( 200 RPM ) and vibrate till I turn the engine off. I guess the oil pressure was very low and maybe the tensioner was a bit lose that may cause this, but it doesn't explain how it was OK after starting the car a minute later.

Thanks
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: C4 Make year 2009 with 1.6 THP engine does not start

Post by xantia_v6 »

All the cylinders use the same camshafts, so if the timing was wrong on 2 cylinders, it would also be wrong on the other 2. This makes me a little suspicious of the story.

These engines have hydraulic valve lifters and it is common for them to run a little rough for a few seconds at start-up while the valve lifters fill with oil, during this time the compression of one or two cylinders will be low, this is normal.

At what date was the tensioner replaced? There were a couple of generations of improved parts (I think that the last was introduced in early 2011).
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