C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error fixed

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C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error fixed

Post by masood_ilyas » 08 Jun 2018, 21:12

This refers to C5 Mk2 from 2006, 2.0 HDi 6 speed Automatic which is increasingly throwing pollution errors and going into limp home mode.
Local chap says it is showing De-pollution error only and he is of the opinion that I need a new fuel tank which has a built in pump and that has allegedly failed hence lack of fuel when needed most i.e accelerating away or going up a hill.
Surprisingly when searching on ebay there were no fuel tanks available!.
I have not asked the main stealers for a quote yet, but I was told it could be around a thousand pounds for a tank!
First of all I am not sure if the local mechanic's diagnosis is correct, it would be great some one more knowledgeable could educate me.
Are the fuel pumps at the tank end integral, If the pump has failed can the pump on its own not be replaced? they seem to be available on the net.
The car in question has done 80000 miles and regularly serviced.
At present I am restricted to local short runs, Motorways and 70 mph are out, as the revs are restricted to around 2000 with 30 mph max.
The loved ones have suggested "scrap it Dad" but any other ideas or suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks

Masood ILYAS
Last edited by masood_ilyas on 12 Jun 2018, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by GiveMeABreak » 08 Jun 2018, 21:26

You really need to get a Lexia on the car - guessing is all that is going to happen until you do.

Those depollution messages can mean many things but often related to the fuel circuit or more likely the emissions. We need a VIN so we know exactly what you have. That will determine whether you have a DPF or not and the exact engine etc.

The fact that it has gone into limp home mode is because the engine management system has done so deliberately to protect the engine as something is not working properly. Revs are then limited to prevent damage.

You need to get it on a Lexia, check the fault codes that will be present, write them down, clear them, then take the car for a quick spin, return and then run the Global test again. Note which codes are reappearing and note them down. If you put them here in a post we may be able to help troubleshoot further.

A new fuel tank sounds completely ridiculous to me for a start. A fuel starvation yes, but again - just guessing without a proper diagnostic. Save your money and sanity by doing it right. Don't go chucking money at replacement parts that may be completely unnecessary. :-D
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by myglaren » 08 Jun 2018, 21:59

GiveMeABreak wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 21:26
A new fuel tank sounds completely ridiculous to me for a start. A fuel starvation yes, but again - just guessing without a proper diagnostic. Save your money and sanity by doing it right. Don't go chucking money at replacement parts that may be completely unnecessary. :-D


Quite agree - I fail to see why this would be necessary.
It is possible but unlikely that there could be some biological contamination but pulling the fuel pump and checking the strainer for contamination should be the first step.
If it is contaminated then a clean and the addition of some of the bactericide/fungicide that is used in boats should cure it eventually. Local ships chandlers or pleasure boat stores should stock it.

This kind of thing: https://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/cl ... s-20010817

But as Marc has said, a Lexia session should reveal any other likely possibilities.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by Paul-R » 08 Jun 2018, 21:59

Given the mileage it's most probable that the DPF (diesel particle filter, also known as a FAP) in the exhaust system is getting filled to capacity. The DPFs can quite often be backflushed to clean out most of the soot and other non-combustible crap caught in the filter. This then gives the DPF a second life before it will need to be replaced. The catalyst used to assist the DPF (Eolys) tends to run out at about this time and might also need replenishing. Lack of Eolys causes the DPF to block up quicker.

The suggestion of a new fuel tank is probably a misunderstanding of the error messages displayed. Particularly misleading is one which mentions a "diesel filter" This is nothing to do with the fuel filter and usually points towards a blocked DPF.

I had a Mk1 C5 and the fuel pump was most definitely replaceable. I wouldn't have thought that the Mk2 was that significantly different.

But, as Marc says, the car needs to be read on a decent code reader. The best option is a dedicated reader known as a Lexia or Diagbox. Second best is a high end reader such as those supplied by Snap-On and the like.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by Gibbo2286 » 08 Jun 2018, 22:38

No pump in the fuel tank on this model. I think.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by Stickyfinger » 08 Jun 2018, 22:48

Bet he is thinking of the Eolys injection pump and that is a 100% guess/bullshit without the Lexia report

New fuel tank, = laughable, DO NOT trust a word the idiot says.

There I said it, blunt maybe but the guy is a fool 1st class.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by masood_ilyas » 09 Jun 2018, 09:56

Thank you all for your valuable advice.
I had my suspicions It didn't sound right.
Time to dig out the old XP laptop and the lexia for error listing.
I will come back with VIN and Batch No. and Lexia codes to make some sense of it.
Marc could I email the VIN number to you or is there a safe place to publish it (not that any one will be interested in cloning this C5)
Thank you

Masood
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by GiveMeABreak » 09 Jun 2018, 10:04

Yes, please send a Private Message to me Masood, but I generally mask them out once received if publicly posted - either option is fine. :-D
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by masood_ilyas » 10 Jun 2018, 15:39

..

The VIN for this C5 is VF7RCRH*********, and an RPO of 10746
The lexis session revealed lots of errors dating back to its 80 thousand miles of motoring ( or 128000 Kilometers as it was reported).
I used a filter to report only the faults in the last ten thousand miles and the errors logged were as shown below,
a few of them could be explained which followed a change of factory fitted Radio to off the shelf radio one with USB Bluetooth and mp3 player spec.

Numbers on the left is occurrence, followed by error code and its description
78 ( F159 ) Oil level information
42 ( 9C85 ) of the lighting stalk - coherence
36 ( FC82 ) communication with transponder
29 ( 0102 ) Flow meter signal Frequency to high
24 ( F40A ) oil gauge
16 ( 0113 ) Inlet ar temperature signal (Flowmeter) OC or SC positive (+)
14 ( 2563 ) Turbo Valve position copy signal Value higher than setting
10 ( E000 ) Reception of main wake-up request information
8 (F8E8 ) Absence of +PERMANENT on the display
8 ( D218 ) Comfort CAN ECU reception Cruise control speed limitation: incorrect value received
6 ( FECC ) Adaptation of sensor to wind screen impossible not defined
4 ( 7157 ) External temp information
2 ( F062 ) No communication with radio ECU
2 ( 9110 ) Headlamp elevation motor decentered ( RH or LH )
2 ( 1830 ) Front wheel speed information transmitted by (ESP) incorrect value received.
2 ( 9C88 ) of the wiper stalk - coherence
1 ( F062 ) No communication with radio ECU
1 ( 8998 ) Headlamp wash control short circuit to -
1 ( 1351 ) Pre-post heating relay circuit plugs never fitted.

Errors log was cleared and the car was taken for test run, to my surprise no pollution fault error :) and it ran fine with no problems.
Ran another Lexia session and found the following reported.

1 (F8EB ) Absence of +PERMANENT on the display
1 ( 1351 ) Pre-post heating relay circuit plugs never fitted.
1 ( 0102 ) Flow meter signal Frequency to high
1 ( F062 ) No communication with radio ECU

I am not an expert and nothing seems obvious here, other than the fault 0102 which I take it is to do with Air flow sensor.
This may only be snap shot and not a complete picture, I will clear the logs again and carry out a few more test runs to see how the logs build up.

Could it be just a simple case of replacing the MAF and not what was advised as needing replacement fuel tank!
If it was the MAF where is the best place for buying it from.

Thanks, once again any advice will be appreciated

Masood
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 10 Jun 2018, 17:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: VIN Masked
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Jun 2018, 17:16

That's a reason why we suggest reading and clearing the logs first then re-running the car to see which ones reappear. It makes it simpler.
F8EB will be an issue connected with the Head Unit when you changed it and the lack of communication between it and the Multifunction Display.
1351 - Ignore that - it is a common one with the Glow Plugs and you can generally forget that.
0102 - Yes, MAF - that is likely to need a clean or replacement - but be very careful not to touch the wire if cleaning - just get some MAF cleaner, but you might want to get another one depending on the mileage.
F062 - Again related to the Head Unit which is missing.

As for the MAF, the part number is 1920 HH. These are £172 from Citroen, so hunt about for these which you can get reconditioned from about £80 up.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by masood_ilyas » 10 Jun 2018, 21:48

Thanks Marc.

update:
Later in the evening after clearing logs, I went for another test run and drove it a bit harder up a hill, and got the pollution error.
This time logs did not show the expected 0102 error, but instead "Fault ( 2563 ) Turbo Valve position copy signal Value higher than setting".
I have no idea what that means but does it rule out the MAF. Is it pointing to turbo plumbing or stuffed up EGR system.

I will check spare MAF tomorrow, see what Eurospares or GSF have to offer.
By the way I noticed some on Fleaby ranging from £30 - £80, new!, Lord only knows how long these will last or if they are any different from Stealers!

Thanks

Masood
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by myglaren » 10 Jun 2018, 21:55

The cheap MAFs don't last very long at all.
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by xantia_v6 » 10 Jun 2018, 22:29

Marc,
Can you post up a diagram of the boost control valve and the associated plumbing, especially the hose (if any) to the atmosphere port?
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by GiveMeABreak » 10 Jun 2018, 23:46

This is for the Siemens System fitted to this vehicle. Number (9) is the Pneumatic capsule.
Click to Zoom
C5-MK-II-Masood-A.png
C5 MK II Masood B.PNG
Air circulation (as per arrows):
A: Outside air intake
B: Exhaust gas + Air
C: Exhaust gas
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Re: C5 Mk2 2.0 HDi fuel tank gives pollution error

Post by xantia_v6 » 11 Jun 2018, 06:24

That diagram does not show the atmospheric hose to the boost control valve, but I think that there is one (1622z3)
Image
check that the little filter on the end is not restricting the airflow through this hose, it it is, it will cause control tracking errors because the control valve will be unable to dump pressure fast enough.
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