1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

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leftfootleashed
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1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by leftfootleashed » 20 May 2018, 21:13

After doing quite a bit of work to try and resolve the issue, my 56 plate Berlingo Multispace with the 1.6 HDi engine is still running lumpy, burning oil and generally stinking up the place.

The engine starts slightly hard in the cold (not a problem at the moment), initially runs very lumpy and produces quite a bit of blue smoke. Lots of oil in the air intake. I've read elsewhere that the seal between the rocker cover and the pipe that runs from the air filter to the turbo can be the cause of this. The O-ring seemed OK, but I had a vague recollection of, before I came across this problem, noticing the pipe had come loose and reconnecting it, so I hoped this would fix it. Recently, I sealed the pipe to the rocker cover with RTV to try and completely eliminate this as the source of the problem.

I also cleaned out the pipe mentioned above, the pipes to and from the intercooler, the intercooler itself (by taking the ends off and flushing with brake cleaner and compressed air - a really fun job :roll: ), the throttle body and the pipes to and from it. All were dripping oil. I didn't clean the intake manifold because it means taking off all the injector wiring and fuel pipes. I hoped that I had found the source of the oil and stopped it, and the remainder would burn off eventually.

Now the air intake seems to be full of oil again, and (perhaps most worryingly) the intake pipe has blown off the turbo twice (this may be because the surfaces have been covered in oil and so slipped off easily, but presumably there shouldn't be so much pressure there.

I recently changed the oil and filter, as well as dropping the sump, cleaning it out, cleaning the turbo oil feed and filter, oil pickup gauze, and replacing the injector seals, to try and solve/prevent the common problems with these - the problem I'm describing existed before all this, so it's neither solved nor caused it.

Anyone any ideas?

Cheers,
Dave

Bick
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Bick » 20 May 2018, 21:37

It could be a turbo passing oil or just a worn engine from high mileage.

How much oil is it using in 1000 miles?
how many miles on the engine.
Lumpy starting in the cold could be glow plugs - they are needed for emissions not starting on the 1.6hdi

Bick
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Bick » 20 May 2018, 21:37

o and hi and welcome

andy5
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by andy5 » 20 May 2018, 21:50

I'm no expert, and this may not be relevant, but the time I had oil everywhere it was due to a blocked crankcase breather, a flame trap that looked like a filter, filled with wire gauze, all coked up.

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Zelandeth
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Zelandeth » 20 May 2018, 23:22

The hose coming off the turbo will be under quite a bit of pressure - as it's through forcing air into the engine via that hose that it gives you extra power. In my experience, the hose clip here needs to be the correct size and really quite tight.

How much oil is the car using?

Also worth asking when dealing with any diesel that's in a situation where there's oil getting into the inlet tract - do you know how to handle things in the event of a runaway?

Ideally CO2 fire extinguisher into the air intake - but if that's not viable (I know not everyone has one) - top gear, foot firmly on the brakes and dump the clutch. It's not going to do the clutch any favours, but if it's a choice between that and an engine shredding itself that's preferable I reckon.

leftfootleashed
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by leftfootleashed » 21 May 2018, 18:09

Hi and thanks for the welcome and advice.

Car has done about 100k and seems to have been well looked after (full Citroen main dealer history, whatever that's worth).

Would a turbo leaking oil result in oil on both sides of the turbo? I would have thought mainly one but perhaps not.

Is the crankcase breather the bit on the RHS of the rocker cover that feeds into the air intake? (I.e. the bit I mentioned in my first post that I've sealed)

Where's the flame trap?

I'm not sure exactly how much oil is being burnt. The electronic oil guage on the dash doesn't seem to register (hasn't in the 2 months I've owned the car) and the dipstick is a yellow plastic job with no obvious markings on it, not the notched metal one as described in the handbook and like my old 2.0Hdi. I put 4.5l in when I changed it, as I read that's about the top of the dipstick and it should be run with more oil to prevent the common turbo issues, and have since put at least another 2l in over 500 miles, but the level may not have dropped that much.

I have heard the nightmare stories about diesel runaway, including from a friend who experienced it first hand. I know about try to stall it but didn't know about the fire extinguisher. I have a little one somewhere, might be co2. Worth a check, thanks.

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EDC5
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by EDC5 » 21 May 2018, 18:32

leftfootleashed wrote:
21 May 2018, 18:09
Hi and thanks for the welcome and advice.

Car has done about 100k and seems to have been well looked after (full Citroen main dealer history, whatever that's worth).

Would a turbo leaking oil result in oil on both sides of the turbo? I would have thought mainly one but perhaps not.

Is the crankcase breather the bit on the RHS of the rocker cover that feeds into the air intake? (I.e. the bit I mentioned in my first post that I've sealed)

Where's the flame trap?

I'm not sure exactly how much oil is being burnt. The electronic oil guage on the dash doesn't seem to register (hasn't in the 2 months I've owned the car) and the dipstick is a yellow plastic job with no obvious markings on it, not the notched metal one as described in the handbook and like my old 2.0Hdi. I put 4.5l in when I changed it, as I read that's about the top of the dipstick and it should be run with more oil to prevent the common turbo issues, and have since put at least another 2l in over 500 miles, but the level may not have dropped that much.

I have heard the nightmare stories about diesel runaway, including from a friend who experienced it first hand. I know about try to stall it but didn't know about the fire extinguisher. I have a little one somewhere, might be co2. Worth a check, thanks.


A turbo bearing fail can leak engine oil into the intake. You mentioned cleaning out the intercooler, how much oil was in it out of interest?

I'm not sure if your engine has an air Doser, if it does, then a runaway will be stopped when you tun the ignition off as the butterfly valve closes.

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white exec
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by white exec » 21 May 2018, 18:39

The dipstick situation sounds a bit of an unknown, and could conceivably lead to over-filling.
Maybe someone with the same engine could pull theirs, and make some measurements?

Gibbo2286
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Gibbo2286 » 21 May 2018, 18:39

Wrong dipstick, engine over filled?

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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by Gibbo2286 » 21 May 2018, 18:40

Snap Chris. :)

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MikeT
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by MikeT » 21 May 2018, 18:41

leftfootleashed wrote:
21 May 2018, 18:09
I put 4.5l in when I changed it, as I read that's about the top of the dipstick and it should be run with more oil to prevent the common turbo issues, and have since put at least another 2l in over 500 miles, but the level may not have dropped that much.
:shock:


ETA: I just checked my handbook and the oil capacity in my 1.6hdi is a mere 3.9L
btw, my dipstick is yellow plastic too.

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bobins
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by bobins » 21 May 2018, 19:16

Are these the dipsticks that are known to snap off near the base and make it difficult to get an accurate measurement ?

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MikeT
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by MikeT » 21 May 2018, 19:33

bobins wrote:
21 May 2018, 19:16
Are these the dipsticks that are known to snap off near the base and make it difficult to get an accurate measurement ?

Not that I'm aware of but anything's possible I guess.
You can tie them in a knot and they won't snap, they're that flexible.

Here's one I made (joke) earlier...
IMG_20180521_192547.jpg
Measured from o-ring to tip = 55cm
IMG_20180521_192624.jpg

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white exec
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by white exec » 21 May 2018, 19:57

bobins wrote:
21 May 2018, 19:16
Are these the dipsticks that are known to snap off near the base and make it difficult to get an accurate measurement ?
. . . as opposed the other PSA sort that crumble into yellow bits at the top . . .
Isn't heritage wonderful!? #-o

andy5
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Re: 1.6 HDi (Citroen Berlingo) Burning Oil - Oil in Air Intake

Post by andy5 » 21 May 2018, 20:58

leftfootleashed wrote:
21 May 2018, 18:09
Is the crankcase breather the bit on the RHS of the rocker cover that feeds into the air intake? (I.e. the bit I mentioned in my first post that I've sealed)

Where's the flame trap?

It might be, I don't know what else a pipe like that could be doing. There isn't necessarily a flame trap, but there may be something part of the way along the pipe.

I'm thinking of a Rover V8 engine. The oil leak became so bad I used 4 or 5 gallons of oil on a 1200 mile return trip, and had to clean the trailer with a pressure washer

It turned out the curved tin plate gasket that goes across the middle of the V had a buckled upwards crease near the back, with a split, and oil was going down the back, across the gearbox, and under the car.

On the front of one of the rocker covers was this cylindrical device going to a breather pipe. Inside was a rolled up ball of chain linked gauze, which I removed and shook all the coke out.

Even after that it was still losing a bit of oil, maybe a pint and a half in 1000 miles. In the end I left the oil filler cap off, could see a tiny amount of vapour, but the oil loss reduced to nearly nothing, none added between changes.

Why does it happen? The piston rings don't make a perfect seal, so some air leaks past them, and this pressurises the crankcase, so that needs to be relieved. If the intended pipe is blocked, the pressure finds another way out, perhaps under a rocker cover seal.

I'm not saying this will be the solution, but it might be worth looking at.