Berlingo 1.9d fuel pump leak

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malshelley
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Berlingo 1.9d fuel pump leak

Post by malshelley »

Good Day all
Well in the and snow we found diesel dripping from the rear of the injector pump on our 1.9d berlingo 1998 (non turbo) the fuel seems to be running from between the pump body and the bracket. We have checked all the pipe connections at that end of the pump and they seem tight and dry. The pump at that end seems one piece(?) but without taking the bracket off cannot see where leak is. The fuel just drips when the engine is running and the speed of the enginge does not seem to make a difference. In the Haynes manual there are many warnings re removal of the pump. So was wondering if anyone had any ideas? As the garage man has quoted megabucks without even seeing the problem.
Thanks
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spider
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Post by spider »

Welcome :)

You are right on the change-over year for engine types.

It could be either an XUD (which could have either Bosch or Lucas pump) or a DW8 (which will almost certainly have a Lucas pump)

Regarding the leak, I'm not 100% sure what mean. There are a few places it could potentially leak from, the one-piece is probably the amour over the stop solenoid / 'coded anti start module' and hp outlet.

I would suggest washing it off and drying it then running it for a short time, just enough to confirm where it is actually leaking from if possible.

A picture of the engine bay and the leak would be great if possible.

If you are not sure of engine type:

(Unfortunately both later types have an aluminium inlet manifold) , the earlier unit the XUD has a round fuel filter with four hex-headed bolts holding the lid on. The later engine, the DW8 has a plastic cover over the engine (usually, but not always) and an oval fuel filter with no bolts in it, just a clip on lid.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Post by Wookey »

By rear end do you mean the end with the 4 injector pipe connections? They most commonly leak from the shaft seal at the other end, but then the fuel tends to go down the side of the engine under the plastic covers, which doesn't sound like what you are reporting.

There are various pump types with holes and covers in slightly different places so it's hard to advise without a pic to definately identify the pump.

The thing about removing the pump is just that you need to make sure the flywheel and camshaft are fixed in position so when you put it back together everything in still in the correct relative position (needs 3 M8 bolts and a drill bilt/rod). It's a little intimidating the first time, but it's actually not hard - just follow the instructions. (getting the covers off and releasing the tensioner can be the hardest bit due to a lack of space down the side of the engine. It was really tight on the C15 - not sure if there is any more space on the berlingo).
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Post by CitroJim »

Indeed, the Lucas pump normally leaks from the throttle shaft spindle and was once a dead easy job to do and new seals could be fitted in-situ. Sadly, as soon as they fitted armouring to the stop solenoid area that option was out.

The drive shaft seals occasionally fail and this will result in diesel running down the cambelt area.

Most leaks on a Lucas seem to end up causing diesel to collect on the underside of the pump.

Before too much more can be advised, you'll need to do as Andy says and clean up the pump fully to try and spot where the leak originates. We also need to know if it's a Lucas or Bosch and if it's an XUD or DW8 engine. Pumps are easier to remove from an XUD as there is no need to disturb the timing or cambelt. on the DW8 the cambelt has to come off before the pump can come off. It's a much more involved job on the DW8.

Note that in both cases, a special tool is required to remove the pump drive sprocket from its taper on the driveshaft of the pump.

Both removal/refitting and resealing a leaky pump is a skilled job and this is why a garage will quote a big price. If you cannot do the whole job yourself, it's always best to seek out a diesel specialist rather than a general garage; all a general garage will do is pass it to a local specialist anyway and take a cut. Specialists are normally a lot cheaper and even cheaper if you can take them a bare pump rather than the whole car..
Jim

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Post by malshelley »

HI and thanks
think the filter is the clipped kind. Van is not at home as leaking so badly before holidays but hoping to fetch it back soon when all the snow goes and then can tell for sure.
thanks
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Post by spider »

You're welcome.

If its the clipped oval its the DW8, although that's just a irrelevant point really, although it does mean a high certainly of a Lucas pump as I've never seen a DW8 with a Bosch pump, although stranger things can happen I suppose.

As above, need to clean it off then run it to see where its actually coming from, a pic of said leak will then help us help you determine the cause and rectification needed. ;)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
malshelley
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Post by malshelley »

The fuel pipes fit onto connectors at the rear of the pump. Are they part of the pump our can they be screwed out?
I bought a "mirror on a stick" and the fuel seems to be running from between the bracket and the pump.
I have read haynes and it says you cannot fit a pump back on without special tools to time it. Is this fact? or is there a way around it
any help please?
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Post by malshelley »

The leak is from the back end of the pump. i.e looking from the inside of the car the left. Its coming between the bracket holding the pump and the pump bady. I have taken pictures but how do I get them online?
are the connectors for the fuel pipes to the back of the pump removeable?
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Post by CitroJim »

Pictures will help immensely malshelly :D

This thread tells how to post them...

Although I'm familiar with pumps, I'm havuing trouble visualising yours from the descriptions so pictures will make it a lot clearer...
Jim

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Post by spider »

Agree we need pictures, although if I "had" to take a guess I would say its coming from the input / drive shaft which is probably (Jim would confirm) not the most common place for a Lucas unit to leak.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Post by CitroJim »

Indeed, it's not a common place for a leak on a Lucas Andy but the good news is that the seal can be swapped without having to totally strip the pump or de-armour it. The seal is a special one though and would have to come from a Lucas overhaul kit.

The more likely place for the leak id from the big O ring around the distributor head. Once de-armoured, which is not such a difficult task as it is on the Bosch, the seal is reasonably straightforward to replace.

Easy it is not but well in the remit of a well equipped home workshop.
Jim

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malshelley
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Post by malshelley »

I think these may be the photos. my appologies if i've done it wrong



Image
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malshelley
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berlingo

Post by malshelley »

the forth picyure shows the rear of the pump and the leak seems to start somewhere behind this bracket. If I jam a tissue under the pump between the brackey an pump the leak stops until the tissue is soaked through and no fuel runs under the pump.
is thes where the shaft being discussed is?
malshelley
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berlingo pump

Post by malshelley »

I have managed with a mirror on a stick, a small torch, a bit of kitchen roll and two fingers to glean some numbers from the plare on the pump

lucas
?8445B333 (cant read first number)
moo 9looks like)
DPC
DWLP11
type
no SER (or SEK)
511067LRE


does this help anyone?
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Post by dave2011 »

hi mal . im having a similar problem with my synergie........ the pump is leaking and i ended up taking it to two garages that said they could fix it and in the end could,nt so i took it to a diesel specialist that said over the fone to bring the car down so the guy could have a look as the duff seals maybe able to be replaced while the pump was on the car but in my case they wernt so ive found a mobile mechanic thats taking the pump off the car and taking it to the diesel specialists where it will be refurbed and bench tested before it is returned to the mechanic to replace.while this is getting done its getting a new cam belt water pump and aux belt and tensioner while its in bits. :) ya best bet is to take it to a specialist 1st time round n not a normal garage as ive wasted 2 full days of my time with garages that didnt have a clue when it could of been fixed. :evil:
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