Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

[napping]

I eventually tracked it down to the BSM (under bonnet) which had been inundated with tree detrius, causing damp to stay and created high resistance between every single fuse!

Thanks Doo for the suggestion. I swapped the BSM with a working one and it made no difference. Did you do anything with the maxi fuses that sit beneath the BSM?

[ozvtr]

It's a 2006 model with a manual gearbox. The engine doesn't turn over on the key and there is no "click" from the starter solenoid.

The MkII C2's (2005 on) were an "all CAN BUS" car. The starter is driven from a relay in the BSM (engine bay fuse box) which receives a "start" CAN BUS message from the BSI.

If all the other functions of the BSM work (high beams, low beams, wipers, fog lights ETC) then you probably have an immobilizer issue...now!

[Doo]

I eventually tracked it down to the BSM (under bonnet) which had been inundated with tree detrius, causing damp to stay and created high resistance between every single fuse!

Thanks Doo for the suggestion. I swapped the BSM with a working one and it made no difference. Did you do anything with the maxi fuses that sit beneath the BSM?

From memory, all maxi's were ok.

I read the part where you stated the car needs to be in "P" which suggests either the clone was from a piloted gearbox car or the system can't tell the difference and is looking for a Park signal!

ozvtr suggests immobiliser, which is possible. However, i imagine the dash would tell you it doesn't recognise the key or some such. I wonder if the starter wiring is grotty...

You need a helper to sit & turn the key while you hold a finger on the starter relay to feel for a click. If it clicks, it points to starter or its wiring. If it doesn't click, it is either immobilised (not convinced) or there may be an issue at the ignition switchgear.

It might be worthwhile getting someone in with one of these computers that can find breaks in wiring as that is also a possibility. But try to get hold of a good code reader which might be able to find CanBus faults which could be causing the issue. I have an Autel MaxiPro which found a bunch of faults in my Berlingo. The Diagbox doesn't want to know & Lexia is hopeless as it won't communicate

[napping]

I read the part where you stated the car needs to be in "P" which suggests either the clone was from a piloted gearbox car or the system can't tell the difference and is looking for a Park signal!

I checked back with the company that took my old BSI and set up the new one. They hadn't cloned it after all! They virginised it and synced it to the ECU and keys. I know the "new" BSI came from the same model C2 as mine, but am unable to tell if the car was an automatic. Assuming it was, and given mine is manual, would this give the message "place auto box in P" and stop the engine from starting? And, if so, is it simply a change to a Lexia setting to switch auto box off?

[ozvtr]

After 14 pages this is getting hard to keep up.

If the BSI has been "virginized" you will have lost the remote central locking. Do the fobs work? If they don't, you'll need to get new fobs. The old fobs can be unlocked but you've got a better chance of finding a needle in a haystack than finding some one who can do it! If your old keys don't work let me know and I'll put you on to a website that might be able to help.

Yes, I forgot that the "all CAN" systems will flash up an immobilizer error on the central display if there is a problem. So I assume there is no immobilizer problem?

On the older CAN-VAN cars there is a lock out relay on the starter which is driven by the auto box. No auto...no relay. Those (CAN-VAN) "manual" cars had the starter wired DIRECTLY to the key.
However, on the all CAN cars the starter is run by a relay in the BSM. This relay is indirectly run by the CAN BUS. So a "request to start" comes from the key to the BSI then from the BSI onto the CAN BUS. Then down to the BSM on the CAN BUS. So it looks like the CAN BUS can lock out the starter relay. It seems that if the CAN BUS indicates that the gear box is not in P or N, it won't engage the starter relay.
So, yes, somehow the car seems to think it has an auto box installed!? And that P or N info is not there! You will need to rummage around in the BSI and disable anything to do with an automatic transmission.

This is why cloning is better than virginizing. Cloning retains everything. However, virginizing is simpler. Cloning requires that you have the correct hardware and firmware revisions of the BSI. The location of data on the EEPROMs varies from revision to revision.Virginizing means you have to start from scratch and set up the BSI. So I would go through every option in the BSI and check it's correctness.

[napping]

If the BSI has been "virginized" you will have lost the remote central locking. Do the fobs work?

Yes, I forgot that the "all CAN" systems will flash up an immobilizer error on the central display if there is a problem. So I assume there is no immobilizer problem?

So, yes, somehow the car seems to think it has an auto box installed!? And that P or N info is not there! You will need to rummage around in the BSI and disable anything to do with an automatic transmission.

Thanks OZVTR - You're right, it's an "all CAN" 2006 model and the central locking works fine. I'll lay my hands on a Lexia and look at the auto box module options.

[napping]

After 14 pages this is getting hard to keep up.
So, yes, somehow the car seems to think it has an auto box installed!? And that P or N info is not there! You will need to rummage around in the BSI and disable anything to do with an automatic transmission.

This is why cloning is better than virginizing. Cloning retains everything. However, virginizing is simpler. Cloning requires that you have the correct hardware and firmware revisions of the BSI. The location of data on the EEPROMs varies from revision to revision.Virginizing means you have to start from scratch and set up the BSI. So I would go through every option in the BSI and check it's correctness.

Using Lexia I found the BSI was set up with Auto Gearbox "present" so it was looking for a "park" signal and, as my car has a manual gearbox, it was stopping the car from starting. I simply disabled the auto box option and the car started!!

So, after all this time, the problem was a BSI that was intermittently and completely "dead" and a replacement BSI that wasn't properly cloned. I'm guessing the old BSI internal power connection had failed, possibly due to a bad connection between the boards or a faulty relay.

Thank you to everyone for their help in resolving the problem - I've learnt a lot

[dleach12]

Evening all,

hate to hop on with something unrelated but Im unsure how to post something new and this seems closest to my fault.

I have a 2004 1.6 GT C2 currently being converted into a stage rally car and I'm struggling to get it cranking. the instrument cluster is doesn't do anything when the ignition is on (doesnt even light up) I then get a sequence of beeping noises coming from the clock spring and then the ignition shuts off. When the key is turned there is no cranking at all, just nothing. It has had the harness removed and then refitted to allow a roll cage to be fitted and the interior painted, from my assumption everything is there and is working but I may be missing something.

What is the minimum amount of items inside the car needing to be plugged in to allow the car to crank? does it have an immobilizer unit, if so where is it? I have live to the stereo and centre screen, hazards and locks are working but just no power to the clocks and no crank, I've read that a flat battery in the key may cause this to happen?

From this thread Ive seen there is x2 different layouts of BSI's etc, it seems my vehicle is a 54 reg but has the 2005 facelift style fuse box.

Sorry for such a long and awkward question but all help is appreciated.

[ozvtr]

There are 2 different electrical systems for the C2. CAN-VAN and "all CAN".
CAN BUS and VAN BUS the system used for all the ECU's to communicate with each other.
If the car was built in 2004 it should be CAN-VAN. But if it has a "facelift" style fuse box (you didn't say whether that was glove box or engine bay fuse box) it will have been built after 2005. If it's a genuine GT it should have CAN VAN electrics. If it has the later all CAN electrics then there is a problem. Goodness knows what is going on there!
If it has CAN-VAN electrics, the starter is connected directly to the ignition key.
If it's all CAN, the immobilizer will lock out the starter if there is a security problem.
The immobilizer system is split between the engine ECU and the BSI.