Xantia 2.0HDi Starter! Poor running now though

[Rhothgar]

Hey all,

Have got the Xantia started through an ECU swap. Will go into full details in another thread once I have had further time to play around with some more chip swaps, etceteras.

The car is in limp home mode and running like a bag of nails. No smoke at idle but white clouds, and I mean CLOUDS, when revved to its LH maximum of 2500rpm.

One of the electrovalves is ridiculously hot to the touch. You can hold it for maybe 2-3 seconds before you have to let go.

Attached is photo. My fingers are on the hot valve. Can someone tell me if this is normal? And which valve that controls.

The turbo does not seem to be working at all and I know from reading another post "110HDi - Loss of Power" that it is not a common thing to fail. Bearing in mind, it was working when I last got engine started 2 months ago, it hasn't just failed. I am going to go and check over the pipes. I could have connected them up all wrong.

Does the tape on the pipes indicate where that pipe should go to a white dot on top of the EV itself?

I noticed also that the bottom of the intercooler has rotted away. I think I have a spare but I doubt it would cause limp home mode as it is not connected to a sensor.

Also the rev counter is reading 1500rpm at 803pm (Lexia read).

The ECU I am running at the moment is from a RHY engine and not an RHZ engine (which my car is)

Some other pointers are:-

Lexia reports P0100 (off top of head). Either way, the flow meter signal - open or short circuit.

Live readings from Parameter 1 are:-

Engine RPM - 803rpm
Cam/CranK Sync - Yes
Fuel pressure measured - 298bar
Difference - 2 bar
Fuel Pressure Regulator Open Cycle Ratio - 16%
Injected flow reference - 9mm3/stroke
Injector 1 flow correction - 0.20mm3/stroke
Injector 2 flow correction - 1.61mm3/stroke
Injector 3 flow correction - Minus 0.75mm3/stroke
Injector 4 flow correction - Minus 1.14mm3/stroke
Injector Voltage - 79.8 Volts
Measured air flow - 535.3 mg/cp
EGR Valve Electrovalve OCR - 5%
EGR Throttle Electrovalve OCR - 5%

Parameter 2 (where it differs from Parameter 1 only):-

Fuel Pressure Regulator current - 623.5mA
Pre-injection advance - 12 degrees
Main injection advance - 1 degree
3rd piston Deactivation - Yes
Atmospheric Pressure - 1012Mb
Coolant, Air and Fuel Temps are all OK.

[Hell Razor5543]

I know this is a Xantia and what I am going to say relates to a C5 Mk1, but the engines are similar. If you have a Lexia available it will help for testing.

The vacuum probably comes from a pump on the end of the nearside of the engine. It comes through one pipe that then splits into two, with one pipe for each electro valve. These then open/close to control their relevant device (the electro valves are the same device, regardless of what they control).

You may, with the Lexia, be able to test the electro valve for the EGR. I cannot tell you where this is, but somebody using a garage diagnostic unit was able to cause the EGR electro valve to 'buzz' for 30 seconds. If you have them connected up the wrong way (so EGR electro valve is managing the turbo, and vice versa) it could explain the issue.

One other thing has come to mind. When I first got my current C5 the EGR had a leaking diaphragm, and the electro valve for it had a dead short (and, by the fact you have a hot valve, you may have the same issue with the electro valve).

[admiral51]

Glad to see you have it running for more than a few secs, does seem electrical so maybe the new ECU is maybe not configured correctly, it ran ok before looking over old threads so maybe it is just a simple recode job ?

[admiral51]

Can you take a wider angle pic of the valve as i think i have the same engine/age and can do a primitive test in the morning if i know which valve you are pointing at, sorry but i am a bit of a muppet:)

[Rhothgar]

Can you take a wider angle pic of the valve as i think i have the same engine/age and can do a primitive test in the morning if i know which valve you are pointing at, sorry but i am a bit of a muppet:)

In the above picture, you can see the offside engine mount at the bottom of the pic. I am standing by the offside wheel reaching over the wing. The valve I am holding is the one towards the front of the car. My index finger is on the lower portion of the valve.

As for actuator tests, I should have mentioned this, I did do the test but could feel or hear nothing on either of the two valves. There is one that controls the inlet pipe and it's sort of bolted near to the ABS ECU. I will swap that one out again and see if that buzzs. I may have to put my ear actually on it but I would have thought that you could actually feel it buzzing.

I wonder if a 51 plate Peugeot 406HDi has electrovalves as there is one at a scrapyard the other side of town. Don't fancy traipsing all the way over there to find out they don't have them. I went to look at it for the ECU last week and that was a 3 plug!!! I could pilfer the MAF sensor off it though if it's the same.

I'm pretty sure a bad MAF will not cause clouds of smoke like this.

Car is at my Mum's otherwise I would take new photo. Tell me if you're still struggling to understand where I holding and I will nip down there tomorrow.

[wheeler]

Ok a few points. The RHZ engine has 3 electrovalves & the RHZ only has 2. The RHZ has an extra one for controlling turbo boost.
A leaky intercooler almost certainly will cause limp mode & air flow faults to be logged, it will used the boost pressure sensor to detect this.
The electrovalve pipe work is marked for identification, they are marked with the colour of the connector, it looks to me like the one in the pic the connector is matched with the wrong pipework??
The electrovalves themselves are all identical however & can be swapped with each orher.
I have seen on a few occasions the vaccum pipe work becoming blocked up with hard carbon type deposits, worth a check.

EDIT: There may not be 3 EV's on the older 88 pin plug, I will confirm later. Do you have a vaccum operated throttle butterfly in the air intake?

[Rhothgar]

Ok a few points. The RHZ engine has 3 electrovalves & the RHZ only has 2. The RHZ has an extra one for controlling turbo boost.

This is an interesting point which I was unaware of. Strange how it's not throwing a fault up to do with turbo pressure solenoid valve. Maybe this is also why valve is overheating? I will swap a couple out and see if valve still overheats.

A leaky intercooler almost certainly will cause limp mode & air flow faults to be logged, it will used the boost pressure sensor to detect this.

I'm fairly certain it's not leaking but I think I have nice clean spare somewhere. I hope so as I am really trying to not spend any more unnecessary money on the car.

The electrovalve pipe work is marked for identification, they are marked with the colour of the connector, it looks to me like the one in the pic the connector is matched with the wrong pipework??

The wires seem to sit comfortable in their respective positions unless I've actually moved the one with the blue and white tag forward. I can't remember unbolting them both.

EDIT: There may not be 3 EV's on the older 88 pin plug, I will confirm later. Do you have a vaccum operated throttle butterfly in the air intake?

There are three on mine. Two on top of engine and one which sits near to the ABS ECU which is connected to the air inlet?

[Rhothgar]

Well spotted Wheeler!

I've just gone through some photos from June before I brought the car back down from my mate's garage and the connectors definitely looked to have been switched.

I am sure I switched them over temporarily yesterday also but there was no change. Maybe because the ECU is not seeing one. The question is which one though.

...couple of minutes scouring photos of Lexia parameters...

Of course, the turbo pressure solenoid valve is the one that is not monitored (well not by Lexia at least - unless that is the reading given by Atmospheric Pressure in Parameters 2 screen?)

Lexia clearly mentions EGR valve EV and EGR Throttle EV (which, would I be right in assuming, is the one for the air inlet?)

I'll to check the waveforms with a scope today for the EV's to see if they are working.

One interesting thing I have noticed with the factory wiring diagrams (component locations diagram) is component 1244 (Proportional EGR Valve) is shown in the position of the one in my photo with the blue and white tag (should have blue connector as you rightly state) but it is not shown in the actual wiring diagram. Only 1233 (Turbo Pressure Solenoid Valve) and 1253 (All or Nothing EGR Valve) are shown.

So where is 1253 (EGR valve) located? Is it behind the engine? Excuse me if I'm being dumb but I've never looked for it and assume it doesn't have an electrical connection. It just seems strange that it is not on the Components Location sheet.

[wheeler]

This is an interesting point which I was unaware of. Strange how it's not throwing a fault up to do with turbo pressure solenoid valve. Maybe this is also why valve is overheating? I will swap a couple out and see if valve still overheats.

If you have an ECU from a RHY then it wont even be expecting to see the electrovalve??

The wires seem to sit comfortable in their respective positions unless I've actually moved the one with the blue and white tag forward. I can't remember unbolting them both.

Seems odd that there is a blue tab on one of the pipes on the upper valve then on the lower valve it has the same coloured connector as the other one?? Is there enough slack on the cables to let them fit the wrong way around?
Is there coloured markings on the other pipes for identification? They should each have a white marking too to identify the outlet side.
What coloured connectors are on each of the electrovalves? I think the EGR valve one should be Black & the turbo wastegate one should be Grey.

[Rhothgar]

The plot thickens!

I’m just looking at the 12.12 wiring diagram for the RHZ with air con or hydroactive.

One question it raises is 12.12 is for a DW10ATED with RHZ and 12.10 is for DW10TD with RHZ.

I’m 99% sure mine is DW10ATED engine. It’s the 109 variant.

The diagram doesn’t even show the turbo pressure solenoid valve.

Up at my mate’s now and am about to desolder my immo chip and transfer to an RHZ ECU I have.

[admiral51]

Taken a picture of my engine and looks different from yours

[white exec]

I have most of the Xantia wiring diagrams here, so if there is a specific one you need just let me know VIN, or exact car and engine details.

[wheeler]

One interesting thing I have noticed with the factory wiring diagrams (component locations diagram) is component 1244 (Proportional EGR Valve) is shown in the position of the one in my photo with the blue and white tag (should have blue connector as you rightly state) but it is not shown in the actual wiring diagram. Only 1233 (Turbo Pressure Solenoid Valve) and 1253 (All or Nothing EGR Valve) are shown.

So where is 1253 (EGR valve) located? Is it behind the engine? Excuse me if I'm being dumb but I've never looked for it and assume it doesn't have an electrical connection. It just seems strange that it is not on the Components Location sheet.

Im finding the same thing myself & cant locate the 2 pin blue on the diagrams either.

The EGR valve itself has no electrical connection, Just a vac pipe that leads to one of the Electrovalves (should be the one with the black pug I believe).
The 110 bhp should have 3 electrovalves, One for the EGR valve, One for the EGR throttle butterfly (the thing on the air intake sometimes referred to as the air doseur) & one got the turbo wastegate control. The 90 bhp RHY version does not have the Turbo wastegate control one, on this variant the wastegate is controlled directly from the inlet manifold pressure.

[GiveMeABreak]

The plot thickens!
I’m 99% sure mine is DW10ATED engine. It’s the 109 variant.

Correct you have the DW10ATED engine.

[GiveMeABreak]

I think I have posted this previously for your vehicle, but just in case not:

Wire 1287 (fuel additive pump temperature sending unit) from 1253 (all or nothing solenoid valve (EGR)) seems to terminate as 123 / 123a (123 states: control heating lambda sensor B upstream catalytic converter). Now this engine doesn't have an additive system - so what does wire 1287 (fuel additive pump temperature sending unit) do and is this the reason it does not exist?......

Wire 1256 (Exhaust gas recycling solenoid valve command) from 1253 goes to pin 52 of the injection ECU - so does that wire exist in the Engine ECU and if so, can you follow it back to locate 1253?