Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Over on the Energy Matters Global and Domestic thread comment was made that in the the development of Offshore wind "fields" around the UK, much of the "gubbins" is sourced from outside the UK.

Is the same to be said for the "gubbins" of the charging infrastructure?

Well in anecdotal evidence today from the label at the back of a couple of instavolt chargers....good news for "charger makers" jobs in.........Australia :-D

See for yourself
from Australia to Newcastle<br />Does the UK not have a charger making industry?
from Australia to Newcastle
Does the UK not have a charger making industry?
Regards Neil

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Mandrake »

Interesting Neil. I knew that Instavolt used Tritrium branded chargers (as do a few other networks outside the UK) but I didn't realise they were designed and made in Australia...

Tritium chargers are one of the most reliable on the market which is why Instavolt is so reliable compared to most of the other networks in the UK. They're not fancy to look at with no high resolution colour screen etc but they're simple and quick to use and rarely let you down. Definitely my choice of rapid charger in Scotland with CPS being a somewhat distant second place.

As far as I know, no rapid chargers are designed or made in the UK. Just yet another example of the UK being happy to be a consumer and not a producer in the technology field. Unlike car manufacturing where there is a huge overhead to start/restart design and production, designing and building chargers is something that an existing electronics design house could start doing, so we might see it happen in the future.

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Just to add to the collection. First up Morrison's partners Genie Point.....Owned by ENGIE (1/4 owned by the State of France (those well known advocates of a State Aid level playing field))

So who makes the charger gubbins for Genie point. No nice little label on the machine telling us but this
EV Box
EV Box
EVBOX are owned by ENGIE and one of the important locations for production of their chargers is Bordeaux (odd that wonder if it has anything to do with the French State owning a 1/4 share in ENGIE.)

EVBox reopens renovated and upgraded Bordeaux factory for electric vehicle fast-charging stations

So thats as far as the information trail goes at the minute on Genie Point Chargers.

REgards Neil

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Engenie, the UK Charging Infrastructure provider, has rebranded itself as "Osprey"
https://ospreycharging.co.uk/from-this- ... be-osprey/

I can almost see why. Engenie is a really duff name, and it has nothing to do with the French-based Engie, or Engie's recent acquisition Genie Point while being too similar in name.

Osprey is a word which doesn't really have any negative connotations unless you are a fish. I do think that Engenie/Osprey or whatever it is called are likely at some stage to be taken over by one of the bigger energy companies.

The Chargers at M&S Alnwick have been rebranded
A Pair of Ospreys at Alnwick
A Pair of Ospreys at Alnwick
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 12:46
Woeful Porsche trip.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... ng-network
The couple, who love their new fully electric Porsche Taycan 4S, which has a range of about 250 miles, contacted the Guardian to describe how difficult it is to recharge a car away from home.
First thought on my mind when I find chargers not working, whats the Guardian's telephone number?

First trip newbies...it happens :-D Plenty in and around Bournemouth should have topped up before they set off back to Kent. Check with zap map and I bet the Instavolt at Starbucks was working
If they had filled up here they wouldn't have got into the Guardian of course.
If they had filled up here they wouldn't have got into the Guardian of course.
Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 29 Nov 2020, 13:34, edited 1 time in total.

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bobins
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by bobins »

myglaren wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 12:46
Woeful Porsche trip.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... ng-network
Re-arrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying:
Sense. Money. Than. More.

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white exec
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by white exec »

That doesn't explain the substantial numbers of out-of-order chargers encountered, or the forecourt response, or the support-line response . . .

If all goes to plan, huge numbers of BEV newbies will make journeys in the coming months/years, and it's not unreasonable to expect the charging infrastructure to be available, working, supported, standardised and streamlined.

Big role here for DfT and BEIS, but I'm not hopeful good steerage (and regulation) is within either the desire or ability of this administration. Big Oil is obviously doing a good job to ensure this confused and patchy provision continues, of course.

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

white exec wrote:
29 Nov 2020, 13:40
If all goes to plan, huge numbers of BEV newbies will make journeys in the coming months/years, and it's not unreasonable to expect the charging infrastructure to be available, working, supported, standardised and streamlined.
Yes agree with that Chris, but I think Mr and Mrs Taycan from Tonbridge Wells poetic licence should be able easily to make a 250 mile range top drawer electric car work even with the charging infrastructure as it is without having a 9 hour drama every time they visit the wilderness of Bournemouth.

Still they made their point if anyone reads the Guardian, and quotes their legendary experience ad infinitum in the corridors of power, it may go a little way towards improving things.

Regards Neil

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white exec
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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by white exec »

I've been a Guardian reader for 56 years now.
Rumour has it there's an AA box on San Seriffe, but the Forum Treasurer has said an excursion there could not be justified.

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Richard_C »

I would like to be an early adopter of Electric (PHEV and Hybrid seem dead-ends) but the infrastructure isn't good enough yet. I still think a universal payment system - we have a good one called debit and credit cards - and simple fast/slow chargers would help so you can pull up anywhere just like you can at any petrol pump would be a step forwards. If the cars weren't so expensive I would probably get rid of one of our IC engine ones and have an electric that would do for most journeys and a petrol that would do for most miles.

But moving on, I don't think we will ever get 'enough' charging to fit the way we live now - we need to re-think a lot of things. It's not about commuting, most battery cars will do that and be charged at home. It's the leisure. Think about the first Saturday of the school summer holidays, you get queues for petrol pumps on the M5 in the Westcountry now, and that's when cars are on the pump for 6 or 7 minutes. October half term, busiest time in the Lake District. Anywhere near a major airport almost any day in any holiday period. Even if you had the chargers, the grid would be under severe strain. Public transport doesn't suit, when people get to their destination they want to make local trips, and take 'stuff' - surfboards, walking boots, whatever. Cost is an issue. I would love to go from where I live (a village with no bus service near Cambridge) to Heathrow or Stansted (oh how I hate Stansted) by public transport but as soon as you have 2 or more travelling the cost far exceeds the drive+park cost. There are other pressure points - several thousand away supporters turning up at a football ground once a fortnight makes for local strain on the system, but it can't be economic to cater for that if its all but empty 13 days out of 14.

So we have to spread out our activities, we can't provide infrastructure for 10 million drivers to move about away from home/beyond vehicle range on the July peak day, nor 18 million to drive about over August Bank Holiday. Lets assume every holiday cottage/apartment has a parking space and charger, every hotel has one per room except inner cities, lets assume the public charging network is 50x better than it is now. We still have to re-think. Holidays with a range of 'weeks' definitions - now its mostly Saturday to Saturday, maybe 1/7th should start on each day of the week. Get rid of Bank Holidays and simply add 8 days to everyones entitlement. Maybe get rid of weekends, have arolling 2 days off in 7, or better 3 in 10. Not sure how you could manage that across school districts but somehow we need to spread the bulk of leisure trips over 15 weeks not 7, days off in the week over 7 not 2. Stuff like that. Because if we don't we will never have enough capacity to satisfy everyone.

Part of the answer is technical - range and recharge time. Part of it is infrastructure - investment and standardization of payment and access. Part of is is social and employment patterns, we have to 'unlink' ourselves.

But we don't hear much about that, and change needs to start before 2030.

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by mickthemaverick »

I have to agree Richard. Way back in the 70's I worked for BT and after the troubles of 1973-4 the union negotiated a slightly more flexible working hours arrangement meaning I used to work a 9 Day fortnight. It was 8 days of 08.00-17.30 or 07.30 -17.00 if you preferred, then the final working day of 08.00 - 16.00 or 07.30-15.30 giving you 84 hours at work less 9 hours lunch breaks totalling 75 hour fortnight equivalent to the old 37.5 hour week. The off day rotated such that one fortnight would end with a Friday off and the next fortnight begin with Monday off giving a 4 day weekend every so often and a three day weekend for the rest. Staff were staggered so we always had cover and it worked very well. The short day was usually the day before the off day so you got an early start before the rush hour if you were going away. So the idea is not new and can work very well when managed properly!! :)

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Richard_C wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 11:40
I would like to be an early adopter of Electric (PHEV and Hybrid seem dead-ends) but the infrastructure isn't good enough yet. I still think a universal payment system - we have a good one called debit and credit cards - and simple fast/slow chargers would help so you can pull up anywhere just like you can at any petrol pump would be a step forwards. If the cars weren't so expensive I would probably get rid of one of our IC engine ones and have an electric that would do for most journeys and a petrol that would do for most miles.
My experience of the first 12 months of EV ownership it that there is nothing to lose from giving it a go, and compared to the fuel and maintenance costs of even my zero depreciation 05 reg nissan micra ICE, £1200 in the bank after year 1.

We have a thread which I called Bargain Basement Electric to cater for the second hand route as you are perfectly right the new EV's are mostly all in the £20,000 plus bracket, although there are some hopes that the DACIA Spring may start breaking the entry level price point. It remains to be seen, they are a wing of Renault after all and Renault have their Twingo's and Zoes they want to sell in a higher price bracket. I suspect a throttling of availability of the DACIA spring could be on the cards.

The other thread we have is Electric Vehicles Whats Available? which digs up whats available reviews videos and news of new vehicles.

regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by Gibbo2286 »

mickthemaverick wrote:
02 Dec 2020, 12:06
I have to agree Richard. Way back in the 70's I worked for BT and after the troubles of 1973-4 the union negotiated a slightly more flexible working hours arrangement meaning I used to work a 9 Day fortnight. It was 8 days of 08.00-17.30 or 07.30 -17.00 if you preferred, then the final working day of 08.00 - 16.00 or 07.30-15.30 giving you 84 hours at work less 9 hours lunch breaks totalling 75 hour fortnight equivalent to the old 37.5 hour week. The off day rotated such that one fortnight would end with a Friday off and the next fortnight begin with Monday off giving a 4 day weekend every so often and a three day weekend for the rest. Staff were staggered so we always had cover and it worked very well. The short day was usually the day before the off day so you got an early start before the rush hour if you were going away. So the idea is not new and can work very well when managed properly!! :)
Didn't know you had a part time job Mick :-D I've never had a less than 48 hour week job and being self employed running my own business since 1965 meant working from getting up in the morning to going to bed at night.

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Re: Electric Vehicles-Infrastructure

Post by CitroJim »

Richard, an excellent essay and I do most certainly agree with all points made...