Electric Cars:what's available?

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

CitroJim wrote:
13 Oct 2020, 17:21
I'm happy with the mechanical bits and the motor itself in the Tesla unit but that big board of electronics terrify me...

I can't see it having a long and happy life as it's lives in quite a hostile environment... Still, I guess Mr. Musk will make lots of loot from selling spares as they fail...
Nice hitting the nail on the head Jim! The steering wheel is the next thing to go in the car tech revolution as the electronics and sensors do it for you.

Before it goes completely you may get the half way house
https://electrek.co/2018/12/17/tesla-mo ... ing-wheel/

Image

Tesla wants to bring its next-gen Roadster to market with a butterfly steering wheel,
Image

REgards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:
13 Oct 2020, 17:21
I'm happy with the mechanical bits and the motor itself in the Tesla unit but that big board of electronics terrify me...

I can't see it having a long and happy life as it's lives in quite a hostile environment... Still, I guess Mr. Musk will make lots of loot from selling spares as they fail...
I get where you're coming from Jim but I think you're over estimating the hostility of the environment the board is in. It's in a far less hostile environment than a regular ECU in the engine bay of an ICE is exposed to.

Ambient air temperature in an ICE engine bay can reach around 50C thanks to heat from the motor and radiator, and surface temperatures of the engine around 90C.

The coolant temperature of the motor in the Tesla would rarely get over 40C even when pushed hard and the outside temperature of the motor casing will not even be warm to the touch, with ambient air around the motor literally being outside ambient air temperature. The efficiency is so high at about 95% that heat production is minimal.

The power components in the inverter are all mounted on a heatsink with direct thermal connection to the coolant loop, with the same coolant loop cooling both the power electronics and the oil which is pumped through the oil cooler. So the electronics have active liquid cooling that you don't find in ECU's in an ICE vehicle. So heat is not an issue beyond the heat generated by the inverter itself during high power output.

The other things that make an ICE engine bay a harsh environment for electronics is vibration from the engine and electrical transients from a spark ignition system. The Tesla motor (or any EV motor) obviously doesn't have a spark ignition system, (so the only high voltage transients are coming from the inverter itself) and also produces no vibration at all since there is no reciprocating motion.

The motor is fully suspended by the suspension so road vibration is no worse than anywhere else on the car, in fact it's probably better isolated as the motor is mounted on rubber isolation mounts on the suspension subframe.

Building the inverter onto the side of the motor reduces the complexity of the cooling loop system (since inverter and motor share the same cooling loop) and also eliminates three external high voltage cables. The inverter in many EV's such as the Ion or the Leaf is just a big rectangular box which doesn't allow for efficient packaging in the available space, while building the inverter onto the side of the motor allows it to be shaped to fit into the space available in the suspension subframe, avoiding having a box stacked separately on top of the motor like the Ion or Leaf.

As to how reliable the inverter boards will be over time and how expensive to replace or repairable they will be remains to be seen of course - but if they do turn out to be unreliable, it won't be due to them being in a harsh environment.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Something I have seen (on the Internet) is what the driver facing camera (in the Tesla Model 3) is for. It is (obviously) 'watching' the driver, and then, if there is an incident, it saves the last few seconds of driver activity. It is watching for (amongst other things) mobile phone usage and looking away from the windscreen. I wonder how this gets around the UK Privacy Act?

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Whats new from Citroen? 100% Electric

the e-C4 and the e-spacetourer.
e-spacetourer very little video-wise on it yet
https://www.citroen.co.uk/new-cars-and- ... pacetourer

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by mickthemaverick »

I quite like the look of the C4 but the Spacetourer is gobsmackingly ugly!! May have to keep an eye on the dealer to see when they become available for a drive!! :)

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I see Simon Posted up the e-C4 Vid earlier in the thread so here's his comments brought forward!
Mandrake wrote:
21 Aug 2020, 18:55
The styling isn't really my cup of tea and a 50kWh battery is a bit meh for a car releasing at the end of 2020, (217 miles WLTP range, realistic range probably more like 190 miles) and it's no doubt going to be very over priced, but I suppose it's good news that one of our beloved Marquee's is actually making an effort to get into the BEV game at all...

Built on the same e-CMP platform as the Peugeot e-208 and Vauxhall Corsa-e and due out in Europe in November. (UK release date unknown yet)

From what I've seen on e-208 and Corsa-e reviews the e-CMP drivetrain platform is competant but nothing ground breaking - they're playing it relatively safe and conservative in terms of performance, battery size etc. It does at least have 100kW charging and active battery cooling though.
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The words
Renault unveils sleek new electric hatchback and inexpensive EV

The Pictures
from the horse's mouth https://en.media.groupe.renault.com/
The all-new DACIA Spring Electric
Orders for the All-new New Dacia Spring Electric will open in spring 2021 with a simple range and commercial offer: a battery included in the purchase price and two trim levels. The DACIA spring electric could well be a game changer if they make enough of them...and the price.....

Electrek report "That “unbeatable price” is expected to be around 10,000 €, which is the equivalent of less than $12,000 USD." Hit that price and they will be overwhelmed with orders.

Plenty reading in the brochure here
https://en.media.groupe.renault.com/new ... 989c5.html

Image
Of less interest to me , but another coming addition to the EV choice...
The MÉGANE eVISION – the future of the electric car
https://en.media.groupe.renault.com/new ... 989c5.html
Image
Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 19 Oct 2020, 14:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by myglaren »

Sleek?

Sleek?

Where is it sleek?
Housebrick on wheels with some bling thrown at it.

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:
19 Oct 2020, 14:00
Sleek?

Sleek?

Where is it sleek?
Housebrick on wheels with some bling thrown at it.
Oh I don't know about that Steve, I find a decent house brick far more attractive :)

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myglaren
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by myglaren »

Housebricks have the advantage of a lack of unnecessary complications.

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Skull
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Skull »

Neil Look forward to seeing that arrive in the UK for around £9,000 and I could be persuaded to have one, that turning circle is impressive .... =D>

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Skull wrote:
19 Oct 2020, 15:55
Neil Look forward to seeing that arrive in the UK for around £9,000 and I could be persuaded to have one, that turning circle is impressive .... =D>
I hope they can pitch it at that sort of price. I just took it from the black and white of the electrek article, nothing on the Renault press release I could find indicating a price. I feel that the catch may well be limited production, and the press release from Renault indicates orders being taken from Spring 2021, might just be mainland Europe. It would certainly stir up the entry level city car which VW and the rest want to sell at £20,000 a piece.

About time the market was properly disrupted, and if the DACIA Spring is the one that kicks it off, great :-D Our old friend Carlos Ghosn was taking about such a product years ago now.

Rergards Neil

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by mickthemaverick »

While watching The Chase an ad came on for Vauxhall who are offering "free 48 hour" test drives of the Corsa-e. So I thought I might give that a go despite my auto hatred of the V word. However I looked at the dealer network and as usual nothing near Hertford so I'd either have to get a lift or leave a car there for 48 hours. Hopeless!!:
BFTW
BFTW
Last edited by mickthemaverick on 23 Oct 2020, 18:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The promotion 19th October to 1st November 48 Hour Test Drive Vauxhall Corsa-e

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-cor ... lsrc=aw.ds
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Re: Electric Cars:what's available?

Post by Mandrake »

In September 2020, for the first time in European history, registrations for electrified vehicles overtook diesel
https://www.jato.com/in-september-2020- ... ok-diesel/