Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

We were told that our posting had been delayed so two of us pinched a weekend off, we hitch hiked to Birmingham, walked bloody miles before we got a lift then a truck stopped and the driver said "Jump on the back." then it rained, when we got off, at Stratford on Avon we found that it was a cement lorry and we were covered in wet cement dust. :shock: finished the journey on the train from S on A to Brum.

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by CitroJim »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 09:24
There is, IIRC, a place in Brockenhurst that hires out the Twizies.


I'd say they're an excellent way of getting around and enjoying the New Forest. Second only to doing it on a bike :)

The New Forest is a very special place for me and I spend as much time as I can there... This year I'm doing three Cycle Sportives there.

I also run Brockenhurst parkrun as often as I can...

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bobins
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by bobins »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 12:21
The Arborfield Garrison is still there, and still handling REME.



Most of Arborfield has been wound down as they - along with the sister SEME site at Bordon - are moving / have moved to Lyneham.
I was allowed a fair few days looking around the Bordon site last year - one of the 'heavy repair' workshops was truly enormous, complete with working overhead cranes* :-D It would have taken me.... Ooooh!.... weeks to fill it up with "Mechanical things that might come in useful on day" :lol:

*- If a crane moves whilst no one else is watching...... has the person who pressed the buttons done anything wrong ??? 8-[ :-**

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Heads up for a few other EV's coming along, but most from 2019 onwards, yes and the SUV makes a few appearances in the list.



Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I'd suggest that's a stark warning to Tesla shareholders Neil.

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Mandrake »

I don't think Tesla have too much to worry about yet from the cars in that video... Most of those cars are just concept cars and/or have no specs, price or firm release date yet. It's very easy to compete with an established model like the Tesla Model S and X which have been out for 5 and 2 years respectively, using cars that are barely beyond the concept stage and are years away from production. Talk is cheap in other words, and there is a lot of it in the electric car market.

And don't get me started on the Hydrogen fuelled one - Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars are dead on arrival, certainly in the UK! (My nearest Hydrogen filling station is 200 miles away in Aberdeen, and is the only one in Scotland...)

The BMW i3 is a good and somewhat quirky car - I quite like them as they have the same quirky vibe as the Ion combined with a bit more space and a LOT more performance, but they have been out for nearly 5 years now and are no Tesla killer. They're also very expensive and whilst generally reliable, repair costs out of warranty from BMW are reportedly eye wateringly high.

The i3s sport version recently released is a very minor revision to a 5 year old design - basically wider tyres, (or less skinny tyres, given how narrow the originals are!) redesigned wheel arches, a slight styling makeover in the front, a stiffer suspension setup (which was already stiff to begin with!) and slightly more horsepower. So not sure why it was included in that video when its a minor revision to a 5 year old car.

The only ones that are of significance in the video as cars you can actually buy now or really soon are the Jaguar i-Pace, the Hyundai Kona and of course the new Nissan Leaf.

The 40kW Nissan Leaf shown is already out in the UK and it seems like a decent enough car in the low to mid price range and would probably suit my day to day needs just fine. It's not trying to compete with Tesla though as it comes well short of even the entry level price of the Model 3, and doesn't have the range, the efficiency or room and styling of the Tesla Model 3.

The Hyundai Kona could be a good seller - by all accounts the Hyundai Ioniq electric was a very good BEV, (albeit hard to find as production was severely constrained) with a good overall package and design and holds the record for being the most efficient EV for energy consumption (in miles/kWh) by quite a wide margin. The next closest I believe is the Tesla Model 3 which comes close but still can't beat the Ioniq for efficiency, with most other EV's trailing a long way behind the Ioniq and Model 3 in efficiency, especially the Leaf which is relatively poor for efficiency.

If Hyundai take their design expertise from the Ioniq, built it into a crossover SUV with a large range I think it will sell well and be a good car for those that like driving that kind of car - which seems to be a lot of people these days! Not a direct competitor to Tesla though, as the only SUV that Tesla makes is much, much bigger, and twice the price...

The only direct competitor to Tesla from that video is the Jaguar i-Pace, officially released on the 1st of March and open for orders, which again, if you like SUV's (which I personally don't) looks like a very nice car, and it competes with the Tesla Model X. Sort of.

It's big but its actually significantly smaller than the Model X, although for British roads that is probably a good thing! Performance is comparable to an entry level Model X however the performance variants of the Model X will wipe the floor with it despite their larger size and weight. It comes with 4WD drive as standard which is good.

As much as I like the design of the i-Pace though, I can't help but shake off the feeling that it is a "me too" design that is mimicking the Model X, and that they haven't really come up with anything new - they have just built the "Jaguar Model X". The flat battery under the floor pan and drive train configuration shown in that video is a carbon copy of the approach that Tesla pioneered with the Model S and carried over to the Model X, and the dashboard design etc whilst having a lot more buttons looks like it was designed by the same designer who styled the Model X dashboard...

I'm sure it's a genuinely good car and it will sell well among people who would buy Jaguars, or those that might buy a Model X except for it being an American car, etc... but apart from "second sourcing" the basic design of the Model X I'm not sure that it brings anything new to the table...

Without supercharger support and relying on CCS charging, it will also have limited charging options in the UK at the moment where a lot of rapid chargers do not have CCS connectors, and those that do are only 50kW, if you can find one that isn't broken, whilst the i-Pace itself can charge at 100kW given the right charger. A Tesla on the other hand can charge at 125kW today using a large number of Superchargers in the UK.

As to whether any of this is a warning to Tesla stockholders - maybe. But not a warning to Tesla itself. Elon Musk has stated multiple times that the point of Tesla is not to become a large dominant car manufacturer, but to push the envelope of electric car design and force the whole industry forward into electric car production. He has said that if the existence of Tesla accelerates adoption of electric cars by a decade but Tesla itself goes bust in the process, it will still be mission accomplished as far as he is concerned.

From day one they have put all of their design patents into the public domain so that other car manufacturers can use them, as part of that goal to push the whole industry forward. Who else is doing that ?

Shareholders might not feel the same of course (although Musk's opinion on this is well known so they would have known when they bought shares) and I think they will last the long term if the Model 3 sells well, but I don't think they'll ever be more than a Niche player - they certainly wont ever grow to the size of Toyota or Nissan etc...

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 15:20
Elon Musk has stated multiple times that the point of Tesla is not to become a large dominant car manufacturer, but to push the envelope of electric car design and force the whole industry forward into electric car production. He has said that if the existence of Tesla accelerates adoption of electric cars by a decade but Tesla itself goes bust in the process, it will still be mission accomplished as far as he is concerned.


I suppose dredging up 10 competitors in a list is progress down that line. It is self evident if you look round any "gathering of cars" eg the supermarket car park, that the penetration of 100% EV's is still pitifully low. As this thread evidences you spot the odd Tesla, very few Zoes, BMw I3's, but its quite unsurprising to spot a Leaf they are pretty much mainstream. The development of a genuine low cost EV, although much trailed, has not quite happened yet. When will we see Renaults low cost Dacia come up with the goods, or indeed maybe something from our Chinese friends. (and why not us, little old UK (leading the world according to our own PM!)

As I survey the supermarket there look to be loads of people with considerable amounts of disposable income to spend on new cars judging by the hardware in the car park. Most new, or nearly new, and many many SUV's. The market is there for EV's and the more variety of EV's the better. (even if on all measures you think Tesla is the best!)

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Being a number noticer little bit of a landmark for the spotting EV's thread

14,000 views precisely ...well probably 14001 now!
fcf snapshot just now
fcf snapshot just now
Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Two leafs today, well outnumbered by SUV s and quite a population of Audi’s, BMW and Merc. Most interesting car in the car park..another German. A bright blue golf which had left its lights on. I sort of like the Golf’s rear light cluster when it’s lit up!

Regards Neil
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Yes...watch out for the Smart Electric Drive

Yes and bang on topic for the French Car Forum....its a French Car! Fair enough its parents are Daimler AG with a little swiss swatch in it, but it is built in Hambach, which is very German Sounding but which is in the Moselle region of France. The complex is nicely named Smartville

The only electric car to have a TV Advert in the middle of Grand Designs tonight

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by myglaren »

Followed for a few miles by a Zoe on Friday.
A Tesla S on Saturday.

Spot a few Leafs and Zoes but probably fail to see many others.

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Timmo
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Timmo »

Does the local 'EbikeMan' count?? Hes on variant no3 now, 4 of not 5 large shopper bike packs and zooms around at about 25 - 30mph with no lid on,

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by myglaren »

It's an 'electric vehicle' so it must be acceptable.

Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Got a glimpse of my first Tesla yesterday a blue thing :) only saw the badge as it pulled out of a car park and went off in the opposite direction, I'm pretty sure it was one of the local estate agents who usually drives huge 4x4 BMWs and the like so an environmental gain there maybe.

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Re: Electric Vehicles: What have you spotted?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I spotted a 17 reg Teska Model S P100D.