Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Next stage, "XUD4EJ" lives!!!

Post by CitroJim »

Oh :( that's a bloody shame but at least you did it and it allowed you to assess the rest of the mechanics so it was well worth it and bloody interesting it was too..

Yes, the XUD is as tough as anything - just look after cooling and cambelts along with regular oil changes and they will go on for ever normally. Often they might consume a head gasket around 150K but that's about it...

Same with the 2.1 and HDi...

My Gabriel is on 209K now and she runs and sounds like she's done a tenth of that...

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Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur
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Getting Head Bolts Out

Post by Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur »

CitroJim wrote:Often they might consume a head gasket
...talking of which, I'm gonna be having the head off my 'known running but HG blown' 275k lump to try to 'lay some Ghosts to rest'. Back in 2009 I got to the 'head bolts' stage on a HG job on my previous 405 and I just couldn't get em to budge. The 'access only from the front' (windscreen & bulkhead to rear ofc) didn't help, but others cope doing it 'engine in', often on the Turbo's, on which I know the bolts are tighter.

A garage took over the job and it was never right, I threw money I didn't really have at it and ended up scrapping it, so I'd like to work out why I couldn't get em out and feel I could 'do the job myself if it became necessary' now.

I'll have space, being engine out, to use a T-Bar, but I guess the normal tool of choice for 'em would be a torque wrench or breaker bar, both of which I have in approx 3ft long varieties readily available.

Also, as much as I don't partic want to remove the injectors or camshaft, knowing that I don't have the necessary copper washers for the former, and I don't know how to 'Shim' a camshaft; would it be fair to say that, much as I suspect the engine's never been boiled [I sincerely believe the previous owner was oblivious to the blown HG, delivering it 40miles to me with insufficient oil in the sump to register any reading on the dipstick] it'd be pretty daft to ever rebuild it without skimming the head? Can you skim a head with the cam & injectors in situ?

It'd be a difficult decision which engine to fit: this one, known runner; or t'other, probably ok but can't be sure. Hopefully, I'll never need to fit either of 'em.

My DVR Dash-Cam arrived this morn, off to play with that now. Will update the relevant post soon.

NB: largely with thought to ekjdm's blown up na, I paid just £62 for a complete ZX from the bay, they seem to be especially worthless [which is undeserved], maybe you can find one?
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ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Next stage, "XUD4EJ" lives!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes, the poor old ZX does seem to be at a nadir in value these last few years (maybe even last decade or so) and undeservedly so too since they are a damn good little car & so much more interesting to own than it's rebodied cousin the 306.

£62 seems decent enough, it's finding one local for the right money really since we don't have the best access/contacts for recovering anything other than flat-towed :( Will be starting to look more seriously now for a runner since I know the basic car is as good as it looks.

In other news, lifted the cam cover again this morning and found something strange. As well as the again-snapped camshaft and obligatory crumbled caps there's also a dropped inlet valve on #2 cylinder now. So another positive to the second blow-up is that my decision to not attempt a rebuild using parts from other engines appears vindicated, in that the whole lump appears to have been subject to some huge stresses/impacts and likely wouldn't have held together that long. And as mentioned, it was a very interesting little exercise too.

On the subject of head skimming, I believe the head is required to be fully stripped of all moving parts (including valves). Also, shimming is easy using the formula in the BoL although if you measure them and find them to be in spec prior to removal & keep them in order they shouldn't alter that much even lightly lapping the valves back in on reassembly (and definitely replace the stem seals while you're in there, for the price of them it'd be a sickener to have them fail down the road)

Also, 1/2" drive T-bar about 10" long was my tool of choice for the head bolts along with a Halfrauds Advanced T55 bit. Took a good maul but they cracked off OK. Not sure how much closer the bulkhead is on a 405 but I found access easy enough on the Xant' & with the rad removed I had room to sit on the slam panel with my legs in the engine bay, easing strain on my muscles. There was one "stubborn" bolt on this engine, front centre, and the reason there was corrosion to the threads. I guess it was either wet when assembled somehow or the HG managed to weep a bit of coolant into the threads.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Looks as if we *may* have a replacement engine located, subject to the seller being able to drop it off OK at our end without use of an engine crane. Slightly higher mileage but still only 150-odd thousand & reportedly decent runner. Probably take a while to get round to doing the swap though, even if we do get the engine next week, since I've currently also got the head off the Escort to give it a decoke & inspection as well as stem seals and the like plus just got the paperwork through for a Honda motorbike that was abandoned locally with half the engine missing so that needs some putting back together as well now I know it's worth my time... More on the Xantia and engine job as and when it occurs :)

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent :) A 1.9D can be just about lifted by two strong blokes..

I and one other lifted a 1.6 205GTi (XU5) engine out of a trailer a few years ago without too much stress...

Enjoy the Escort work ;) what engine is that?

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yep, should be doable if I cant borrow a crane on time. The Escort is a 1.6 CVH lump running EEC-IV electronic injection and about 103k on the clock now, I only really lifted the head for a look see as I was buying a gasket set anyway to rectify stem seals and a couple of oil leaks but what I've found re. bore wear dictates my throwing the engine back together to run for the summer while I start a stash of bits to build a new lump for that.

It ran well enough with only stem seal smoke (main reason for lifting the head, easier access to replace them and de-whisker the internals too) and a weepy cam seal but there's wear lips on the bores, very uneven with the worst being to one side of cylinder 4 (right at the timing end, parallel to the crank!) so theres something untoward going on with either crank end float or a bent rod IMO. No reason it won't last the summer though, it did sterling service last year & gives me the option of maybe going back to a carb/carbs over the finicky EFi.

Lovely to work on even with the EFi, tons of room in the engine bay to swing a spanner compared to later cars (bit like the Xantia really in that respect). I'm excited to get out there doing proper spanner work for a change, most of the jobs on that so far have been bodywork/roof/trim and I've had a bellyful of welding for a while lol

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by mickeymoon »

Can you not put a Zetec in the Escort instead of that horrid CVH? They're so much nicer and are used in all sorts of kits, so the wiring shouldn't be an issue. There's thousands of them around in breakers yards, cheapo runners with no MOT for sale etc etc.. Focus, Mondeo, Fiesta etc..

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Zetec/ZVH swaps have crossed my mind, but I keep feeling guilty in that it's a 1 previous owner car, completely standard and unmodified & as such is rare as the proverbial in Escort terms since virtually everything else is heavily modded/swapped/kitted etc. Plus no matter what I did, in my budget there's always going to be a faster Escort with a better build... (oh, and I love the exhaust note of a 1.6 CVH on a straight pipe too... I can pretend I could afford an XR2 back in my pop. plus days haha)

I know it's "only a mk5" in the big scheme of things, but that makes it even more worthwhile IMO to keep stock (or easily returnable to stock, hence my idea of going carb to free up the notorious EFi flat spot..). Another option I suppose would be to add a lambda sensor, build a megasquirt ECU and get it mapped properly on modern kit with parameters suited to modern fuel.#

I guess I'm just stubborn really, and have been told enough times a CVH on EFi never ran right from the factory thus it never will, makes me a bit determined to work through the whys & wherefores to have it right.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Ah, @mickeymoon - looking further into it I'm starting to think a Zetec swap could actually be put back to standard easy enough, just have to nick another CVH mount from the scrappy to modify & could even think about an autobox lol

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by mickeymoon »

Didn't some MK5 models come with the Zetec motor anyway?

I'd not view it as heavy modding or anything bad installing a Zetec , but more of an upgrade to make it into a better car with a longer life left.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

IIRC the 5b (basically just a facelifted 5) came with Zetec yes & the mounts are largely similar. Not fully decided what to do yet but I'm swaying towards staying with a CVH but rebuilt by my own fair hands and subtly upgraded to enable it to last another 26 years, by which time we'll undoubtedly have moved it on since I'm getting itchy already after just over a year (and it isn't French)...

As with so much in life, opportunities seem to come up at just the wrong moment. Had we already sold the Escort and made space for a new project the Xantia could well have been joined by a CX Safari...

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by Gibbo2286 »

ekjdm14 wrote:Yep, should be doable if I cant borrow a crane on time. The Escort is a 1.6 CVH lump running EEC-IV electronic injection and about 103k on the clock now, I only really lifted the head for a look see as I was buying a gasket set anyway to rectify stem seals and a couple of oil leaks but what I've found re. bore wear dictates my throwing the engine back together to run for the summer while I start a stash of bits to build a new lump for that.

It ran well enough with only stem seal smoke (main reason for lifting the head, easier access to replace them and de-whisker the internals too) and a weepy cam seal but there's wear lips on the bores, very uneven with the worst being to one side of cylinder 4 (right at the timing end, parallel to the crank!) so theres something untoward going on with either crank end float or a bent rod IMO. No reason it won't last the summer though, it did sterling service last year & gives me the option of maybe going back to a carb/carbs over the finicky EFi.

Lovely to work on even with the EFi, tons of room in the engine bay to swing a spanner compared to later cars (bit like the Xantia really in that respect). I'm excited to get out there doing proper spanner work for a change, most of the jobs on that so far have been bodywork/roof/trim and I've had a bellyful of welding for a while lol
http://www.mactoolandplanthire.co.uk/gallery

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Yes, I know I could hire one but not sure on an exact date/time when the engine would arrive, and not planning on doing the swap immediately otherwise I would hire the crane and fit the motor same day. As things stand it's not worth 20 quid IMO just to drop an engine out of a boot and onto a skate, and then another 20 when I've given it a going through and fitted a new cambelt kit ready to actually do the physical swap. If I can borrow one off a mate locally though that's a different story :)

(by the way, MAC hire is literally a 5 minute walk from our front door!)

Cheers. Dan.

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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by ekjdm14 »

Turns out hiring a crane wouldn't have been the greatest plan too, original date for the engine arriving was yesterday morning, moved to this morning & again moved to this evening now due to the seller being messed around with work commitments... But, with any luck it'll have "landed" around tea time and in the garage to await a cambelt kit, flywheel-flex plate swap and good clean/tidy up and THEN I shall hire the crane (likely from MAC as Gibbo suggested, as they're just round the corner from us! :D ) do the old switcheroo and cross everything for a working Xantia...

Not sure on timescale as other commitments and cashflow will be a factor, but will update as & when progress does happen.

As an aside, the Escort engine is back in one piece with the new stem seals and some vigorously ground in valves (the exhausts were shocking!) and it runs a little better, improved mainly at low revs/idle/starting which I expected having seen the pitted nasty exhaust valves/seats. Definitely feel like building a properly decent CVH for it though in the future, having seen the inside of it now, maybe with some minor mods but nothing too visible & keeping the original lump to go back to standard if needed.
Last edited by ekjdm14 on 30 Mar 2017, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.

elma
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... Do we have an engine?...

Post by elma »

How much is it to hire a crane? Since I've looked I've found forklifts and mini diggers are cheaper to hire for a week than the crane I enquired about.
You could make a nice veg patch at the same time if you had a digger and it saves all that pushing a crane around.