Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black Xantia, pug 206HDi, Daniel's 206 Verve 1.4i, GTi180 plus XUD9TE 206!!

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by CitroJim »

Some ATFs do look very thin and greeny/LHM-like so I'd not be too concerned at the moment about that...

However, it's the wrong stuff as Dex II should be red..

It's very unlikely a 'box lock-up could kill an engine... I've seen evidence of an HP20 lock-up and normally the worst that happens is a broken engine mount... Also, remember that that the torque converter would absorb a lot of any force but do check the flex-plate - the bit the torque converter bolts to - for cracks...

The HP18 is fairly similar to the 14 but different in enough respects to make a lot of the information on it invalid... Particularly relating to the oil filter... Which, whilst you have the 'box out it's worth inspecting and cleaning... It hides under the 'sump' cover and the valve block.

I have the full Citroen Service manual for the HP14 so if there is anything specific you need I can always advise and scan up the relevant pages...
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh that's much better news, maybe not LHM at least. Interesting to note the BL connection with green ATF as the seller does also have a Mini so I guess it's possible that is what that gravy is/was.

I certainly want as much as possible drained as soon as I can do though so would be interested in any info/ procedures for removing the TC please Jim.

Also I failed to mention I also found the flex plate bolts a little loose :? Will have to give that a thorough investigation once the two are split.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by CitroJim »

As yannbeam says, the HP14 will not care for the green stuff at all... It's a fussy old 'box...

The TC is almost impossible to fully drian and the usual method is to do three ATF changes in short order...

But as you will be separating engine and 'box you can pop the TC off and drain it by resting its neck over a bowl. Not every drop will drain but if you leave it for many hours a good amount will. Pick it up and shake/agitate it every now and again to get a bit more out.
ekjdm14 wrote: I certainly want as much as possible drained as soon as I can do though so would be interested in any info/ procedures for removing the TC please Jim.


Easy! One the 'box and engine are separated after removing the three bolts securing it to the flex-plate and the 'box is separated the TC just pulls of the input shaft.

It's heavy and ATF will spill. My HP20 service tool kit contains three 'handles' to screw into the flex-plate bolt threads to make handing of the TC easier...
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

That's brilliant news, thanks again :) I was hoping it would be as simple. Means I can give it a good draining and maybe a flush with Dex II before it all goes back together.

Just have to hope it ran for a minimal time like this and no other damage has been done. Just got back from a day in Wales ( where the escort performed faultlessly and returned 45+mpg over the 150miles round trip, so we're shattered now. Early night is calling)
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by CitroJim »

Damage is unlikely, it just makes the changes a bit ropey as far as I know...

Excellent news on the Escort :D
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

It's shocking the kind of economy that old CVH can pull out of the bag on a trip, a lot of that journey is outer lanes 80+ ( on the private sections of M56 anyway, to keep up with the flow of traffic) yet it seems to do its best economy near to flat out...

Anyway back on the Xantia sometime soon, final prep for the engine/box to come out and may look into the damp headlights, looks similar in build to the XM units so at a guess it's just a case of unclip, carefully clean without rubbing any reflector material off & seal back up with a bit of goop.

Also quick question regarding the sunroof, it's currently stuck solid (very slightly down at the back, maybe 3/8") presumably with rusted cables, but if I push on the glass I can lift it open by hand & it also jumps/flaps a bit when the tailgate is shut. Is this normal or does it point to something other than the cables being rusted up? Cheers
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by Budge_60 »

ekjdm14 wrote:Oh that's much better news, maybe not LHM at least. Interesting to note the BL connection with green ATF as the seller does also have a Mini so I guess it's possible that is what that gravy is/was.


Nothing to do with me I'm afraid. I never touched the gearbox or topped it up, as the previous owner to me had told me it had just been done. The only BL auto I owned was an SD1 V8 with red fluid in it. Reading about the wrong fluid in the gearbox makes me question the ability of the local so called Citroen specialist that the previous owner to me used for all servicing etc. I can put you in touch with them if you like...
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Oh that's interesting, you're also lucky the gearbox didn't dump it's oil too as the drain bolt was loose! :shock: I can't recall how many miles you did in the car, but I think you did well to get any miles out of it at all, that being the case.

Certainly would be interested to know who this specialist is yes, if anything so I can avoid them lol.

I wonder if I sent a sample of this oil for analysis how much that would cost & if it would likely tell us what the green gravy actually is. The fact that a so-called Citroen specialist may be the culprit makes me wonder if it could in fact be LHM after all ("I'm a Cit guy, they take LHM for everything you know, steering, suspension, brakes..." not too far a stretch to say someone also believed it applied to the gears too?)

Crane ought to be here today so engine swap can progress & gearbox inspection commence. I predict, tentatively, that the car will be running/driving sometime over the weekend. Then just need to replace front discs/pads, check rears are not seized, probably free height correctors, check electrics and trundle down to the local trusted MoT place.
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

CitroJim wrote:As yannbeam says, the HP14 will not care for the green stuff at all... It's a fussy old 'box...

The TC is almost impossible to fully drian and the usual method is to do three ATF changes in short order...

But as you will be separating engine and 'box you can pop the TC off and drain it by resting its neck over a bowl. Not every drop will drain but if you leave it for many hours a good amount will. Pick it up and shake/agitate it every now and again to get a bit more out.
ekjdm14 wrote: I certainly want as much as possible drained as soon as I can do though so would be interested in any info/ procedures for removing the TC please Jim.


Easy! Once the 'box and engine are separated after removing the three bolts securing it to the flex-plate and the 'box is separated the TC just pulls of the input shaft.

It's heavy and ATF will spill. My HP20 service tool kit contains three 'handles' to screw into the flex-plate bolt threads to make handing of the TC easier...


When refitting ensure that the TC is properly located in its 'dogs' I had one brought to me that the guy had fitted himself but couldn't get running, he had not located it correctly, bolted the box onto the engine and done some real mischief to the box as a result.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote: When refitting ensure that the TC is properly located in its 'dogs' I had one brought to me that the guy had fitted himself but couldn't get running, he had not located it correctly, bolted the box onto the engine and done some real mischief to the box as a result.


Nasty! I'm surprised he could even reassemble it like that...

In my experience it is quite obvious when the TC is seated back correctly...
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Well, engine crane assembled, lesson to not leave computer unattended well & truly learned (EDIT- sorted now) cheers.

Will certainly make sure it's all properly "clunked" back in place before bolting the new donkey to it, don't want to replace the gearbox if I can at all help it!
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by Gibbo2286 »

CitroJim wrote:
Gibbo2286 wrote: When refitting ensure that the TC is properly located in its 'dogs' I had one brought to me that the guy had fitted himself but couldn't get running, he had not located it correctly, bolted the box onto the engine and done some real mischief to the box as a result.


Nasty! I'm surprised he could even reassemble it like that...

In my experience it is quite obvious when the TC is seated back correctly...


I think he'd bolted the TC to the flex plate then pushed the box onto it and bolted it up instead of installing the TC to the box first, job done with the engine in situ.
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CitroJim
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote:I think he'd bolted the TC to the flex plate then pushed the box onto it and bolted it up instead of installing the TC to the box first, job done with the engine in situ.


No wonder! That's a case of cart before the horse!!!

Always install the TC before refitting the gearbox and bolt up the flex-plate last of all ;)
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Stickyfinger
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by Stickyfinger »

ekjdm14 wrote: Anyway back on the Xantia sometime soon, final prep for the engine/box to come out and may look into the damp headlights, looks similar in build to the XM units so at a guess it's just a case of unclip, carefully clean without rubbing any reflector material off & seal back up with a bit of goop.


DO NOT TOUCH the reflectors on a XANTIA.

Yes the glass comes off via the clips BUT the reflectors are "vacuum plated" and this is a NO TOUCH surface....even the softest cloth WILL remove it, any damp/water will also destroy it. Blow with air ONLY
ekjdm14
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Re: Black Xantia NA Diesel auto... LHM in the gearbox!!!!!

Post by ekjdm14 »

Stickyfinger wrote:
ekjdm14 wrote: Anyway back on the Xantia sometime soon, final prep for the engine/box to come out and may look into the damp headlights, looks similar in build to the XM units so at a guess it's just a case of unclip, carefully clean without rubbing any reflector material off & seal back up with a bit of goop.


DO NOT TOUCH the reflectors on a XANTIA.

Yes the glass comes off via the clips BUT the reflectors are "vacuum plated" and this is a NO TOUCH surface....even the softest cloth WILL remove it, any damp/water will also destroy it. Blow with air ONLY


Thanks for that one, fortunately I haven't got round to those yet :) will keep well away with my grubby mitts then, I'm without a compressor so air drying is probably the way forward. I'm thinking sunny day, separate the glass & hold slightly off the casing with a spacer & duct tape and let them breathe for a few hours before cleaning the lenses and reassembling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you involved in the design/build of some alternative headlamps (a little Germanic in style, twin round lenses behind a polycarbonate cover)? How did that go/is it going? I'll try and dig up the thread I'm thinking of as it was a good read.