Dump Your Deezel

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BOTW
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Re: RE: Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by BOTW »

CitroJim wrote:
Stickyfinger wrote:How many chickens = 1x horse power ?
:rofl2: With a chicken powered vehicle you could have fried eggs on the way to work!

Seems the tide is already turning if this article in on the Beeb News Website is to be believed...

Points well made about the desperate attempts to meet diesel emissions rules and the difference between lab readings and real-world readings Simon...

I still want to know how bad (or otherwise) a 1.9TD is compared to the latest equivalent engine in the real world...

Nowadays, an electric car would be good for 99% of my needs but I can't possibly afford one. Simple as that. When I can get one for £5K with discounts and incentives I will but until then the diesel stays...
you will get one for less in a few years.. but u might need a looong extension cord..

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by harryp »

BOTD wrote - Since i dont see that anyone would buy a 5yr old used battery car.. would't pay anything for a 5yr old cordless screwdriver..
Oi! Leave my cordless screwdriver alone :wink: . I've had it for well over 6 years and it's lithium batteries are still in excellent condition. The previous incarnation with Alkaline didn't fare so well though, approx 4 year battery life :(.
Interesting times. As has been said many, many times, Governments forward planning end 5 years after the Elections. If only they would do what we elect them to do; run the Country once they are elected (and stop playing internal politics) until the next General Election :shock: .
Have been sick and tired of politics for years, but then with few people voting, we get what we deserve :wink: .
The Australian system seems to have a point in the $10 fine for not voting; at least the complainants have to consider their position viv a vis the general population. But as my History teacher used to say " the majority is usually wrong as they are not properly informed"; so back to aquare one #-o :cry: .
Aaaargh!!

Regards

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white exec
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

BOTW wrote:Wonder what you'd get for a 5 yr old Tesla?

That really does remain to be seen. The equipment built into these cars looks hugely reliable, with only the batteries the obvious candidate for replacement . . . in huge contrast to an ICE vehicle, with its typically complicated and wear-prone engine, exhaust and transmission.

If anyone offered me a 5-year-old Tesla at a decent price, I would probably jump at it. Think I might have to fight Simon off first, though! :wink:

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Mandrake
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

BOTW wrote: Wonder what you'd get for a 5 yr old Tesla? Since i dont see that anyone would buy a 5yr old used battery car.. would't pay anything for a 5yr old cordless screwdriver..

Well after doing my research I've recently bought a 5 1/2 year old 28k mile Peugeot Ion, and the battery is absolutely fine. :wink: According to Diagbox it has 83% of the raw new battery capacity remaining, and the range that I am getting is meeting or exceeding what they got new. Most of the capacity loss happens in the first year or two then it tends to flatten out. It has probably done about 500 cycles so far and should be good for at least 2000 cycles before there is an obtrusive degradation in capacity.

On the other hand my 2 1/2 year old iPhone 6 battery is almost dead - it's down to 50% of the factory original capacity and intermittently shuts down on me. (I'm about to replace the battery myself) It has also done about 500 full cycles.

The batteries in Electric cars are WAY more robust and long lived than those you'll find in phones, power tools and so on, are designed for much greater cycle lives, and are looking like they will do at least 4x the cycles of consumer grade batteries like those found in phones. There is no incentive for someone like Apple to make a battery that lasts 12 years or even 6 years, 3 years (which is typical) is "enough", and lets them keep the cost down to maximise profit, and maximise the energy density. They would rather you buy a new phone after 3 years anyway.

On the other hand EV car makers are acutely aware that battery longevity is the biggest fear of potential buyers, and have done everything they can to over engineer them and optimise cycle life and longevity even if it means a significantly lower energy density, or not making the full capacity of the battery available. (The battery management system on many cars including mine only really charges the battery up to about 85% of its raw capacity, which more than doubles the lifespan compared to using that remaining 15%)

There were problems with the battery in Gen 1 Leaf's in very hot climates but apart from that I'm not aware of any EV's with unusually poor battery life, if anything nearly all of them are greatly outlasting expectations and some manufacturers have actually increased the length of their battery warranties. (Mitsubishi in the i-Miev in the US market, and Tesla)

Of particular note are Tesla's where a combination of a particular long lasting battery chemistry and active temperature management using water cooling are recording amazing mileages with hardly any battery degradation. At 5 years old and 150k+ miles most still have 95% of their original capacity.

Would I buy a Tesla at 5 years old (if I had the money...) you bet! :) 5 years old is a good time to buy any EV - most of the depreciation has already gone but you still have a few years left on the battery warranty and the majority of the capacity still available.

Only time and hindsight will tell, but my gut feeling is the fear over battery longevity in EV's will be found to be vastly overblown - the Y2K of this decade.... :wink:

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Chatting to a young guy today who's on his last year at uni doing a chemistry degree, he said that banning diesels or any other ice vehicle isn't going to fix the particulates problem, in his studies he found that 70% of the particulates in air pollution are not from the engines but from rubber scrubbed off the tyres, so evs will still pollute from tyre rubber. :(

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Gibbo2286 wrote:70% of the particulates in air pollution are not from the engines but from rubber scrubbed off the tyres, so evs will still pollute from tyre rubber. :(


I can well believe that... On my regular cycle rides to and from work and often when out for training rides I cross and re-cross the M1 on overbridges several times...

The stench of rubber hits you like a brick as you ride across the bridges... It's not a fluke or an occasional occurrence - it is apparent every time.

Riding a bike on the road soon pinpoints all the sources of pollution... They're right there in your face and up your nose! Invariably a cyclist is breathing hard and deeply which makes the old nose a lot more sensitive in my experience...

Worst pollution of all is farmers piling up manure in fields by the side of the road...

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white exec
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

For decades, police on traffic direction duty in many countries have worn face-masks. Hazards to the guys on point duty from tyres were known about in Britain back in the 1950s, I remember.

If we can get airborne pollution down by only 30%, it's a substantial move in the right direction, and not a reason for not doing it.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by lexi »

I have to think about all my years on motorbikes now and bicycles. The rubber could also have harmed my dog as she travelled with her head out the window!! :shock:
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT »

Radio4 recently covered a start-up company who do real-world testing of emissions after Dieselgate exposed the cheats. They are slowly but surely collating data on as many new cars as they can.

Anyway, the reason I mention this, is the representative for the company countered the now widely held myth that diesels are worse for NOX emissions as he stated quite clearly that some new diesels they have tested are on a par with petrol vehicles in this respect (though he was careful not to name speciific manufacturers or models, presumably as this is commercially sensitive and valuable information for them).

Gibbo2286
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

I wonder how much particle contamination in the home comes from those scented candles the ladies love so much. :)

We used to write on the ceiling of the air raid shelter with smoke from candles.

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white exec
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

MikeT wrote:
19 Jun 2017, 16:48
. . . as he stated quite clearly that some new diesels they have tested are on a par with petrol vehicles in this respect . . .
It's been a long time since the emissions from gasoline engines received any public attention. Yes, diesels are visibly dirty, and so it's easy to latch on to the visible particles - but, as has been said, what about the invisible stuff?

Many senior politicians treat the public (and those at school) with contempt, and will have us believe that our woes comprise single monolithic (and monosyllablic) issues. Soundbites are repeated endlessly, in the hope that the public will repeat them too, and complex and uncomfortable problems reduced to over-simplified targets and sloganising.

On city air quality, the truth appears to be that all ICE transport is a problem, but that is a message thought too uncomfortable for the electorate (and for government and industry), and so, by targetting diesels alone, the public can be left with a less worrying alternative: petrol. The 'hydrid' illusion feeds into this, helps defuse the urgency of the issue, and also keeps a number of manufacturers of ICE engines happy.

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by MikeT »

(Before it gets too political) it's all smoke and mirrors :rofl2:

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Zelandeth
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Zelandeth »

Random "emission" related question that springs to mind - especially around town...

Brake dust?

Just thinking how *covered* the wheels even on the Lada get in next to no time in very fine dust, how much of that winds up floating off into the air and up some poor kid's nose? Especially around town.

One more point where EVs win I guess given how great a part regenerative braking plays.

Offer me a five (or fifteen!) year old Tesla Model S at a price I could actually afford and I'd have your arm off for it...

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CitroJim
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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by CitroJim »

Good point on the brake dust... Good job it's no longer laden with asbestos but I do often smell it on my bike rides...

As a fine dust, no asbestos or not, it can't be doing any good...

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Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

Zelandeth wrote:
21 Jun 2017, 07:03
Random "emission" related question that springs to mind - especially around town...

Brake dust?

Just thinking how *covered* the wheels even on the Lada get in next to no time in very fine dust, how much of that winds up floating off into the air and up some poor kid's nose? Especially around town.

One more point where EVs win I guess given how great a part regenerative braking plays.
The brake dust buildup on my Xantia is horrific, (as were the previous two) the rims get really black and dusty again in just a few hundred miles, it's a losing battle trying to keep them clean. Some of the black dust is so badly stained in that I can't clean it off even with a (non metallic) kitchen scourer and cleaning solution. (I washed the car last night and gave the wheels a go and gave up in disgust! :roll: )

Meanwhile the front wheels on my Ion have only been washed once briefly when I bought it about 3 months ago, since then it has done over 3500 miles and there is just a subtle layer of dust on the rims that I only just noticed for the first time after reading this thread - I tried wiping it off with my finger in the bottom right corner and it came completely off, so I think a few minutes work with a wet cloth will get them clean again:

Image

Considering the car has been driven daily for 3 months and done over 3500 miles since the wheel was wiped that is very little brake dust buildup indeed. :) And as EV's go it doesn't even have particularly strong regeneration, so the brakes do still do a reasonable amount of work. Some EV's have much stronger regen, like Tesla's, and I believe the Chevy Bolt - those would have even less brake dust buildup as the brakes do even less work under most driving conditions.

It's quite horrific when you think that as little as 30 years ago brake pads all had asbestos in them, and would have been shedding the stuff all over the place as airborne particles! :shock:

I imagine that brake pad dust being shed into the environment even without asbestos is still not a good thing, (what does modern brake dust contain exactly ? It can certainly stain alloy wheels badly...) so anything that dramatically reduces the rate at which brake pads are used up is good in my book. :)