Electric vehicles-Conversions

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Zelandeth
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Zelandeth »

CitroJim wrote:Gosh :shock: What's happened to Volvo? They've adopted the truly bland anonymous eurobox styling cues with vengeance and made something look truly boring and about as desirable as a pound of rancid butter...

Bring back the ruler and the no-nonsense Swedish attitude please!
They're still very much their own thing inside at least Jim.

Reckon a lot of the exterior shaping of cars these days being so similar is the requirements of pedestrian crash safety rules (which let's face it, Volvo are going to aim to score highly in), and the endless race these days to shave everything off the drag figure to bring down fuel consumption and emission figures.

Once that's done save for fiddling with the shape of the headlights, window line and paint there's not a massive amount left really is there?

Had one home as a demo a couple of weekends ago and it was a really very nice place to be.

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by elma »

Vovlo are weird if you ask me, all the S range are as boring and uncomfortable as you can imagine. Get into the driving seat of a C70 though and the car, although it steers like an elephant, is quite addictive.

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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Zelandeth wrote:
CitroJim wrote:Gosh :shock: What's happened to Volvo?
They're still very much their own thing inside at least Jim.
Guess who have recently poached Volvo's Head of Interior Engineering :?:

https://electrek.co/2016/12/19/tesla-po ... gineering/

Other Volvo news on the electric car front, an all electric SUV and a Saloon, and an ambition to produce 1 Million electric cars by 2025.

https://electrek.co/2017/02/09/volvo-fi ... icle-2019/

Regards Neil

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

Zel, I fear you may be right on the reason for all cars looking much the same :(

It does not make me happy...

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

Mandrake wrote....
which almost certainly will outlast the mechanical life of the car
.
Confused as we currently replace mechanical components to keep our "old" cars running.
Am I missing something here? :? .
Regards,
H

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Mandrake
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Mandrake »

harryp wrote:Mandrake wrote....
which almost certainly will outlast the mechanical life of the car
.
Confused as we currently replace mechanical components to keep our "old" cars running.
Am I missing something here? :? .
Regards,
H
Every car reaches a point where it requires too much maintenance to keep on the road - or it rusts out.

My point was that currently the received wisdom is that the battery pack in an EV is the thing that will wear out first and write the car off due to massive replacement costs. Most modern cars are still mechanically sound well past 10 years but the naysayers believe that the battery will die before about 8 years or will have such a dodgy expected lifetime by then that nobody would risk buying an otherwise perfectly good 8 year old EV.

However while that might be true of some models, there is good evidence accumulating over time that some battery packs (Tesla in particular) are engineered so well that the battery will NOT be the first thing to go in the car or the thing that eventually writes the car off as uneconomic to keep on the road.

Certainly there's no denying that an electric drive train (motor, step down gearbox and differential/driveshafts) is way WAY more reliable than an internal combustion engine and standard gearbox, and requires next to no maintenance compared to the laundry list of items that an internal combustion engine will need over its lifespan, and will certainly outlast a conventional auto box by a long way. So the engine and gearbox is not going to be the thing that wears out first.

So it's going to be down to rust, electronics / ECU failure or battery pack to write off an EV or make it uneconomic to maintain. So far its looking like battery packs are very reliable and almost never fail, however some makes and models do lose quite a bit of capacity/range over time, dependant on how the battery is treated, whereas other models have much less loss of capacity over time and with use.

Rust is an ever present threat in the UK as the means of demise of cars over 10 years old, however I don't think EV's will suffer any worse here, and quite a few of them use aluminium body panels that should in theory last longer. So my biggest worry with EV's when they get to the 10-15 year old range is the failure of expensive and hard to get ECU and possible lack of 3rd party sources for these parts. (Especially if they are coded) However if you look at any modern petrol/diesel it is absolutely crawling with ECU's already so that problem has been with us for a while now! :shock:
Last edited by Mandrake on 27 Mar 2017, 16:20, edited 1 time in total.

harryp
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

Am I alone in finding that the shape of new cars is more and more resembling children's toys - transformers and the like? Why can we not have a simple(ish) aerodynamic design rather than a "pumped up on steroids" look; and I find the JCB GT Sport (Range Rover Sport) on ultra low profile tyres quite ridiculous for a so called offroader. (think big Mac, fries and a Diet Coke) :wink: . But hey, if you take a small lorry and spend a fortune on making it handle like a car....
(ducks to avoid blast :rofl2: )

Gibbo2286
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Gibbo2286 »

harryp wrote:Mandrake wrote....
which almost certainly will outlast the mechanical life of the car
.
Confused as we currently replace mechanical components to keep our "old" cars running.
Am I missing something here? :? .
Regards,
H
I wonder how long it would be before the back yard bodgers start to fix up EVs with home made concoctions, batteries bodged up from piles of old laptop batteries and the like. :)

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by harryp »

Rust sorted out my previous 5 cars with over 200k on them each (not all my mileage) :) . As you say, with much improved bodywork nowadays, fewer ECU's required,( although I'm quite sure that a way will be found for some useless ones to rack up bills by way of "having to" put them on a Lexia or equivalent) they should be a sound long-term purchase once the price drops to a reasonable level. I certainly would not have a problem buying one.
Having been delighted with the facts from this thread, am keeping a close eye on battery technology, especially the current development of the glass electrolyte - unless of course it gets bought out and scrapped :lol: .

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myglaren
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by myglaren »

They have indeed.
Have you seen this monstrosity?
xc90-rt_2.jpg
Grim!
Chinese design no doubt :(

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CitroJim
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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:They have indeed.
Have you seen this monstrosity?
Yuk :evil: That's awful...
harryp wrote:Am I alone in finding that the shape of new cars is more and more resembling children's toys - transformers and the like? Why can we not have a simple(ish) aerodynamic design rather than a "pumped up on steroids" look
No!!! I'm right with you here... I detest the modern styling and I agree fully with all you say...

The reason may be related to pedestrian safety as discussed in another topic on here... If you think of the really aerodynamic designs of 30 or so years ago (XM for instance) it had such a sharp (albeit beautiful) front end it would chop a hapless pedestrian cleanly in half.

Most of the older designs looked a bit like a knife. Vehicles have got to be snub-nosed now for that reason I understand so other tricks have to be employed to keep the drag factor down. In fact Pugs now look like their canine namesakes with their snub noses :lol:

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

myglaren wrote: Have you seen this monstrosity?
Chinese design no doubt :(
Every so often on the thread I pose the question whats happening in China, but the question should possibly be phrased "What are the Chinese doing?"

..and the answer as far as the motor industry is concerned definitely not sitting on their hands.

It's already been mentioned that they own Volvo, and also London Taxi Company, and some of the benefit of electric taxi manufacture will come to the UK. £300 million investment in Coventry.

http://www.expressandstar.com/business/ ... -vehicles/

I wonder if they will be in the market for other European brands...not Vauxhall/Opel it would seem but give PSA a year of messing up the integration/cost cutting project and who knows PSA and its brands may be a target. They very much intend on being global manufacturers.
Just a few "China" stories from Electrek

https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/electric ... ion-baidu/

"Chinese tech giant Baidu has confirmed having led a financing round in the electric vehicle startup NIO, formerly known as NextEV. The news comes just after the company unveiled its ‘EVE’ concept, an all-electric and autonomous vehicle. The round of investment is reportedly worth up to $600 million, which would make NIO one of the most, if not the most, well-financed electric vehicle startups today. "

...and in the "battle" that is playing out the "poaching" (or hiring if you prefer) of key staff from TESLA/ Apple or other rivals is part of the game.

https://electrek.co/2016/04/20/bmw-lose ... ech-money/

Last year BMW "lost its EV Leadership" to a new Chinese backed start-up Future Mobility Corp, and another Chinese tech company investing in electric vehicles, LeEco (formerly LeTV), have invested in at least two electric vehicle projects, Faraday Future and Atieva.
Loads of other stuff if you look round for it. Just a little snippet from the "Guys at EVTV" who do a pretty good job of sourcing EV components mainly for the conversion market. Where do their Lithium Battery Cells come from?...The China Aviation Lithium Battery Company (CALB)....and they speak very highly of them.

"The best battery we've found for electric vehicle applications and far superior to GM or Nissan cells in every way."

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=CA180

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
I wonder if they (the Chinese) will be in the market for other European brands...not Vauxhall/Opel it would seem but give PSA a year of messing up the integration/cost cutting project and who knows PSA and its brands may be a target. They very much intend on being global manufacturers.
...er :oops: didn't realise it had already started...Dongfeng Motor (Hong Kong) International Co., Limited (DMHK) already own 13.68% of PSA, the Peugeot Family 13.68%, and the French Government 13.68%.

https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/finance/p ... pstructure

Regards Neil

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by Peter.N. »

In my last 7 weeks of going to Exeter every day I must have seen probably thousands of cars on the A30, most of which I didn't recognise apart for a Daimler Dart a week or so ago and one that was very distinctive but I still didn't recognise it but when I described it to my son he said 'that's a McLaren' so at least I know what one of those looks like.

Peter

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Re: Electric cars/vans/bikes-Conversions/Secondhand..etc

Post by lexi »

The problem ATM is the jump in price to get up to that 200 mile range. Will those higher range cars take big hits on depreciation? Ie to bring them down to realistict s/h car price. Or will they hold price as demand exceeds supply?