Violent bump on cold strting (Xantia Hdi)

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 23 Dec 2010, 19:29

I amgetting a violent bump on cold starting. So that's every morning. Afterthe first start of the day future starts are OK.

Suspect an engine mount.

Likely to be one in particular?

Easy to change?

Car is year 2000 Hdi90 with 59000miles. I am also becoming aware that battery hasn't long to live.

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Dec 2010, 19:52

It's likely to be the top mount torque reaction arm, the one that goes between the top mount and the inner wing via a tube. On each end is a donut and these can split. Very common for these to fail on the V6 and 2.0TCT.

Getting hold of the top of the engine and trying to rock it with some force will often show if there's any movement as a result of failed donuts.

If not that then the mower mount is worthy of a check.

spider · Post by **spider** » 23 Dec 2010, 19:57

I was going to say the lower one

, given that it usually ends up coated in oil.

Its quite easy to change, although you have a choice here:

You can attempt to fit it in situ (not easy without a decent amount of working room) or remove the mount itself and press the new one in (in a vice) trouble is the driveshaft runs through it so that will have to come out, if doing this budget for new driveshaft seal and transmission oil

EDIT... You might be able to narrow it down with throttle on / off at very low speed (careful in this weather obviously) to duplicate it, although this will accelerate (no pun intended) its wear.

jmd · Post by **jmd** » 24 Dec 2010, 07:11

If your battery is the same age as the car I suppose it owes you nothing. Yet an overnight session on a battery charger could do wonders & check for distilled water. This weather is making huge demands on batteries, especially if your journeys are short.

Post by **RichardW** » 24 Dec 2010, 09:08

CitroJim wrote:Stuff about the inner wing engine mount

T'aint fitted to the 90, Jim....

Sounds more like it's down a glow plug or two. What's the temp like in the Dordogne at the moment?

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 24 Dec 2010, 09:44

Richard

Over the past month we have felt sorry for people in UK 'cos we have freesat and watch the UK news.

Here it has been unseasonally warm but we have had three or four nights with temps of -4 or so. But we've also had days of +17. It's the cold mornings when the car gives this big shudder on starting.

How do I check for glowplug probs? Are they expensive (retiree, broke)?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 24 Dec 2010, 18:35

RichardW wrote:
CitroJim wrote:Stuff about the inner wing engine mount
T'aint fitted to the 90, Jim....

Sounds more like it's down a glow plug or two. What's the temp like in the Dordogne at the moment?

How could a down'd glow plug cause a vilent bump? HDi's start pretty well without them, then cause a bit of smoke without them..

As above the torque link to the strut turret is not fitted on 90bhp engines, just 110bhp's...

Bottom mount then possibly the next suspect..

Paul

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 24 Dec 2010, 20:01

citroenxm wrote:
RichardW wrote:
CitroJim wrote:Stuff about the inner wing engine mount
T'aint fitted to the 90, Jim....

Sounds more like it's down a glow plug or two. What's the temp like in the Dordogne at the moment?
How could a down'd glow plug cause a vilent bump? HDi's start pretty well without them, then cause a bit of smoke without them..

As above the torque link to the strut turret is not fitted on 90bhp engines, just 110bhp's...

Bottom mount then possibly the next suspect..

Paul

So, why is it not fitted to the 90 HDI, but only to the 110 HDI?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 24 Dec 2010, 20:14

Because of the massive engine Torque difference between them...

I cannot quote figures, but the difference between 90bhp and 110bhp Torque is quite a bit for just a standard top engine mount to take...

Rev a 110bhp HDi engine without the top link on, and theres quite a bit of engine movment...

Paul

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 25 Dec 2010, 01:42

Specifications...................

1.9TD 2.0 HDi (90) 2.0 HDi (110)

Max power (bhp/rpm) 90/4000 90/4000 110/4000
Max torque (lb ft/rpm) 145/2250 151/1900 184/1750

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Dec 2010, 07:43

RichardW wrote:
CitroJim wrote:Stuff about the inner wing engine mount
T'aint fitted to the 90, Jim....

Sorry! Must confess here and now that I've only ever seen 110HDis and never seen a 90. I made an assumption....

Always a dangerous thing

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 25 Dec 2010, 17:17

ACTIVE8 wrote:Specifications...................

1.9TD 2.0 HDi (90) 2.0 HDi (110)

Max power (bhp/rpm) 90/4000 90/4000 110/4000
Max torque (lb ft/rpm) 145/2250 151/1900 184/1750

MY GOODNESS!

I knew the 110bhp was damm strong, but 184 lb ft at just 1750 rpm!!

No wonder it makes the XUD soooooo slow in gear in comparison... and XUD's produced much higher up the revs too...!

Paul

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 26 Dec 2010, 09:34

Is there an easy electrical test I can do on the glowplugs? It seems from looking elsewhere that the resistance, if good, is a handful of ohms. If over 20ohms or so then duff.

So do I just take off terminals and measure from centre of each glowplug to earth?

Post by **xantia_v6** » 26 Dec 2010, 09:59

I don't know much about diesels, but I know that 20 Ohms isn't right. Maybe a current draw of 20 Amps?

BTW, I am in the camp that thinks your problem is engine mount, not glowplugs

dieselnutjob · Post by **dieselnutjob** » 26 Dec 2010, 10:01

I always reckon that if you can light up a 55W headlight bulb through a glowplug it's probably okayish.
Headlight bulb with 2 wires attached.
One wire to battery +
Other wire to glowplug terminal
Bulb should light up