c5 hdi coolant leak maybe

[myglaren]

Steve, not for your area no, he does up to Peterlee and down as far as whitby, main areas being stockton, middlesbough, redcar, saltburn erc. So its quite a long area but not up as far as you.

I'm from Whitby, originally.

Pleased to hear your dad isn't active up here as the girl in the MOT place I use seems to have a very low opinion of the local rep. Even removed all Forte products from the garage although she readily admits that it is the best stuff on the market.

[Citroenmad]

Steve, not for your area no, he does up to Peterlee and down as far as whitby, main areas being stockton, middlesbough, redcar, saltburn erc. So its quite a long area but not up as far as you.

I'm from Whitby, originally.

Pleased to hear your dad isn't active up here as the girl in the MOT place I use seems to have a very low opinion of the local rep. Even removed all Forte products from the garage although she readily admits that it is the best stuff on the market.

Ah right, its nice over towards whitby.

Hmm im not sure who covers your area but i think i know.

A lot of the reps have a sales background, so they are all for the hard sell. My dad has a mechanical background so he can explain how things work etc and people buy that way rather than pressurising them.

Its very good stuff, all of the products are very good. Its cured a lot of problems which would have resulted in major and expensive work. Always worth a try in my opinion

Like the new avatar pic Steve 8)

[boristhespie]

The tube to the radiator was squishy when the geezer at the french garage squeezed. That's why they took it in 50 euro. Found nothing. Continued, put in Wynns, took to garage here 80 quid!!!! found nothing, pressure tested etc and today, warning lights came on again and had to top up. Must have put in 4 litres overall.


I note the fan type noise is back straight away. Is there a pump with the coolant? Could it be that?

I was told that to look at the matrix they have to take off the entire dash.

How can I be sure to find out what is causing this when two garages and a dealer can't find the damn problem.

head gasket!?

Thats said initially I had a sweet smell in cabin I thought was cleaner used by seller to clean inside the car. Now realise it could now have been coolant. s**t it though (as usual lol)

Not much luck with cars.

[boristhespie]

Yup had to top up yesterday and again tonioght. It's getting worse in terms of rate. The back window steemed up but it was cold and it may have been me.

Can I ask, having had two garages looking at this. One a dealer, one who pressure tested (abeit after Wynns and it not losing coolant) and looked for residue how the hell can I determine where this is leaking?

It can't be a simple as paying £1300 on the offchance it's my Headgasket or hundreds to change the matrix. Surely it must show somehow?

Do I get rid of car?

[Xantidote]

Hi Boris,

How's the leak? Can't believe you need to top up with 4 litres without some visual signs. Loosing that volume of coolant, I'd be worried about the risk to head gasket.

"Sweet smell" in car reminds me of when my Xantia's matrix failed. If your matrix failed, presumably you'd have wet carpets, if that's where 4 litres is going.

Is it possible you're only loosing coolant once up to temperature and pressure, with the coolant lost under pressure through pin-hole in radiator or a hose? Also, maybe leakage past filler cap, but you are talking about a lot of coolant loss (about half the total capacity on a Xantia).

Hope you track it down soon

[xmexclusive]

Hi Boris

I had a similar experience with a newly aquired XM 2.5TD about a year or so ago. When I collected it I had some 80 miles to shift it. Checked the engine and coolant before I left. PO mentioned that there was some water in the boot as it needed the odd top up. I had managed less than 10 miles when it put the stop/low water light up. Header tank empty so let it cool, stuck in the 2 ltrs from the boot. Then into a supermarket for large quantity of bottled water and screen wash. Limped it home in a series of hops that had used a good 15ltrs in total. Turned out to be a major radiator leak that only occoured when the thermostat was open.
Took some finding because testing next day with a cold engine found nothing. No signs of leakage overnight. Had to leave it running on the drive for nearly a quarter of a hour then suddenly it was spurting coolant out through the cooling fans in a steady stream once the thermostat opened.
If it had not been such a severe leak and visible leak I would have been searching for days, particularly as I had already decided that the head gasket was gone.

John

[boristhespie]

The last garage did a pressure test and had it runnng for 1.5 hours. They said the matrix is sealed and there is no way to find out if it is this without taking out the dash. (There is condensation on back window, and sometimes side, but this could be me, although my other c5 never did this?)

It has a new cap & I see no bubbles appearing as it is running.

bear/bare(?) in mind this is a car I bought because my other is knackered.

There was a sweet smell originally. Since filling with Halfords coolant, which has no smell, it hasn't smelt.

What's worring is that the garages can't find it. If they can't I, a complete dunce in car terms certainly can't, especialy with it sitting on the street.

You mention coolant fans. There is a loud fan-like noise as soon as the car starts up, the nose level wavering (Haven't managed to see ANY fans moving). It went away after the Wynns but has come back since the coolant started leaking.

The 4ltrs is over a number of weeks. Originally the car needed topped up (The warning light came on) after 500 miles, but now it's getting shorter, maybe just over a hundred (I do this in a day).

The tempature guage has not yet gone above the normal middle of the road position.

Any advice of where a novice could look would be helpful. Can't afford to spend too much on the thing so want to get the problem pinpointed. Not have to pay 80 each time the garage says there's nothing.

Beginning to think I am Jinxed.

[Xantidote]

I assume you've checked dip-stick, and oil level is where it should be? No mayonnaise/emulsion on oil filler cap?

As the leak is getting worse, should become more obvious, and will become easier to see. Difficult to see if underside of car is wet, but assume you've been grovelling underneath looking for signs (but blue antifreeze on white snow a giveaway). Could be leaking water pump, which on Xantia, trickles down offside end of engine at the back of block, and then runs along lowest lip of sump, before dripping off.

Personally, I wouldn't rely on temperature gauge reading too much. On Xantia, I'd be worried if temp gauge rising due to lost water, as water level maybe then low enough to put cylinder head at risk.

As the garage did, squeezing top hose is good way of telling if short of water without taking header tank cap off. I find squeezing top hose useful when refilling system with coolant, to move the air trapped in top hose.

[boristhespie]

Yeah check dipstick no milkshake.



Could be pump then. That may explain the noise. When I put the Wynns on it made that noise for a little while, like it was dealing with more resistance when pumping.

Is this the only pump in the car or one that is specific to coolant?

Will have a look tomorrow. First time I will see it in daylight for a couple of weeks.

Should I run it to build up pressure?

EDIT SAT : WE Have NO snow here, haven't had for week. So ciuldn't see any drops in snow. However it is blowing an absolute hoolie and pushin rain, so even when I get daylight I cannot even go outside.

Just a thought though, even if the pump is making noise, it maybe due to a LACK of coolant and the pump struggling, as well as a leak in the pump I guess.


As you see my mind goes around and around.

[Xantidote]

Boris,

I've a problem here, as my Xantia engine's not identical to yours. Yes, the pump could be making a noise if it's bearing is failing. Play in the worn bearing could make it difficult for the water seal to do it's job, hence the leak.

I expect water pump is low down on offside, on back of engine block. You may struggle to see it if you have a panel covering the underside of engine (does C5 have one?). You really need to start by finding leaked coolant, and then tracing it backward to it's source. Much easier said than done, if the water runs along edge of sump, or finds it's way on to driveshaft. You'd see nothing though, without removing any panel that covers the underside of the engine/engine bay.

There's only the 1 water pump, which circulates the coolant, and yes, the leak will be more evident with the engine hot, when the cooling system will be under pressure

Perhaps a knowledgable Forum C5 member will be along shortly??????????

[myglaren]

I think Xantidote is on the right track here and the pump gland is failing, along with the bearing, which is why it is always recommended to fit a new pump along with the timing belt as the extra cost is peanuts in comparison to the total cost of the job and the headache when something like this happens.

I seem to recall that it had had the timing belt replaced not too long before you bought the car? Perhaps they skipped the pump and the increased tension on the old pump has made for a rapid deterioration.

The telltale condensation and smell in the cabin point to a separate issue with the cooling system though.

[boristhespie]

Timing belt was done on my other c5. This has done less than 60,000 miles so not near timing belt. I will try and have a look though. Problem is the weather really. Horrendous wind and rain. Must be same near you.

it is quite load. I tried to record noise from inside cabin to put up here, but my phone was guff.


There was no evidence of a leak on tray when the two garages had a look. I will look myself. Wish I had a lift.

The nature of these faults don't make it easy for a non experienced joe schmo. Just hope rain stops for a time tomorrow to let me have a look.

[boristhespie]

Just went out to the car. The Coolant looked okay but I wanted to check in the reservoir itself (ard to see through the plastic) I opened the cap, there was a small woosh of air, like acoke bottle and I stood and watched as the coolant drained away, like pouring a coke bottle with air gurggling up, until there was barely and inch left in the reservoir.

Maybe that is normal, to take into account pressure I don't know????

Can't see any dripping under the car. it is wet here so is difficult but no dripping. You mention offside, that is passengerside or is it (See I told you I am a car thicko)

[myglaren]

Looks like there was air in the system that as the engine/coolant cooled down has contracted, releasing the depression in the reservoir has allowed it to drain back into the system.

There could be a fault in the reservoir cap as it should allow air in to let coolant back into the system as the pressure/volume changes.

Offside is the driver's side.

[boristhespie]

Okay. Had a look. See nowt.

The pipe from Engine to radiator is squiggy. Other pipes have some pressure in them.

The one going into dash I presume is to the matrix and it comes out right next to it. These were hardish and hot.

The noise like a fan is coming from the passenger side, right up close to the window, Near the big round thing (tehcnical genius me) behind the reservoir for brakes (I think that's what that reservoir is)

Not sure if it is coming from that or behind it. BUT da da da!!! I took a video which I will Youtube and let you have a listen cause it worked.

Just don't tell me this is unrelated and is another fault. Pleeeeease!

As for cap, the french dealer installed a new one just in case the old one was knackered.

Offside means off the kerb side. Da na, ping just got it.

Managed to get my Offside passenger door open too. Took off child lock.

Anyway will post video from phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0_6p4_-SQ