Brief Encounter II - The Sequel

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

A little more progress but painfully slow for reasons outlined in my other blog :twisted:

Still, each job is a step nearer :) I'm still wondering it the gearbox will come out alone and truth is, I'm really not sure it will. Anyway, I've now stripped so much away that to lift the engine is quite a realastic proposition and not much more work, just the exhaust, a few looms and the A/C pipes need disconnecting before the engine can lift out.

In fat the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

I had the starter motor off yesterday. What a tiny little pipsqueak of a thing for a 3 Litre engine :lol: :lol: Simple to take off too; another case of where a job on a V6 is actually quite easy despite at first glance looking bloody difficult..

Now, I have a serious request. I cannot lift the engine all on my own (in fact nor the gearbox really) so is anyone up for giving me a hand? Previous V6 experience would be an advantage but not essential! Full board and lodging provided...

I'm not too fussed when it is. The next three weekends are all out due to family commitments so we'll be looking a late April now I guess. With enough notice, I can also do a few days mid-week and that might in fact be better...

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DickieG
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Post by DickieG »

CitroJim wrote:Now, I have a serious request. I cannot lift the engine all on my own (in fact nor the gearbox really) so is anyone up for giving me a hand? Previous V6 experience would be an advantage but not essential! Full board and lodging provided...

I'm not too fussed when it is. The next three weekends are all out due to family commitments so we'll be looking a late April now I guess. With enough notice, I can also do a few days mid-week and that might in fact be better...
I'll give you a ring later Jim.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

DickieG wrote:I'll give you a ring later Jim.
Thanks Richard, look forward to it :D :D I'll be here until about 6 this evening and then off to Hampshire for the week. On the journey I'll be parrot-less as I'm going in the Activa....

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xantia_v6
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Post by xantia_v6 »

I am busy for the next 4 weekends, but after that I would be interested in getting some practise in. I may be repeating the job on my car soon after :cry:

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

xantia_v6 wrote: I would be interested in getting some practise in. I may be repeating the job on my car soon after :cry:
You will be most welcome at any time during proceedings Xantia_v6 :D

Do you think your gearbox is on the way out then? :cry:

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xantia_v6
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Post by xantia_v6 »

I really don't know. The symptoms (some slippage when accelerating just after braking) are intermittent and not severe, but could be consistent with a nearly blocked filter, or a pump that is sucking air. I hope to get a clue from the damage in your transmission.

It may of course be something else...

jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

Jim I can help you of course :)

you've done lots for me. I am pretty clear so far, for most of the next 4/5 weekends

:D

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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers »

CitroJim wrote: Now, I have a serious request. I cannot lift the engine all on my own (in fact nor the gearbox really) so is anyone up for giving me a hand? Previous V6 experience would be an advantage but not essential! Full board and lodging provided...

I'm not too fussed when it is. The next three weekends are all out due to family commitments so we'll be looking a late April now I guess. With enough notice, I can also do a few days mid-week and that might in fact be better...
Have you lost my mobile number Jim? :)
I'm only down the road, and you know I'm skilled at mixing pilates with your engine hoist :D

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

Xac wrote: Have you lost my mobile number Jim? :)
I'm only down the road, and you know I'm skilled at mixing pilates with your engine hoist :D
:lol: :lol:

No, I have your number safe Xac! I made an assumption you're really busy yourself with life in general and so on..

Anyway, you know, any fine day and I'm likely to be busy on said V6 so pop in, even on the off-chance and besides, the kettle is always warm, as is, I hope, the welcome!

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

It's so good to be back working on the V6 again :D :D It was so frustrating last week to have lovely weather and not being able to do anything :twisted:

Anyway, to business. I spent some time pondering the possibility of removing the gearbox with the engine in-situ and came to the inescapable conclusion it's just impossible to do so :(

To that end, I've started the work to remove engine and 'box and surprisingly, on the V6 scale of things, it'll not be too bad a job. I've worked out a special V6 BoL "spanner code". One spanner equals 5 normal BoL spanners and and a normal BoL 5 spanner job is a 10 V6 spanner job :lol: :lol: On that scale, engine removal is about a 6 spanner job...

In fact, PSA were very clever when they designed the V6 and it's not hard to see that the engine and gearbox assembly complete with loom and inlet manifold would have slotted in the shell very early on in the build, complete with all ancillaries. I have to admire their packaging skill really beause the engine/gearbox will come out complete with downpipes, starter, alternator, HP pump, complete loom, accumulator/PR block and most coolant hoses. In fact, now I know this, I've dismantled too much already...

The engine/gearbox must come out dead vertical (a straight up lift) and this has meant removing some things that normally would not need removing such as the engine fuse/relay box (ever removed one? It's tricky!) and the ABS unit as it's not enough just to move it a bit to one side.

The main thing though is the engine electrical loom. It's big, complex and stays with the engine/gearbox and it's necessary to disconnect it at the ECU, the RH and LH inner wing interconnect sockets, the inertial switch, the relays in the ECU box, the O2 sensor, the brake pressure sensor and so on. Even the ECUs themselves and the ECU box has to come out! Not an easy job and it was obvious all these bits were put in after the engine was dropped in at the factory.

Apart from disconnecting the exhaust, the lower engine mount and coolant hoses to the rad, I'm almost ready to go for the big lift :D

In looking at how to get the loom in a removal condition, I had the coil pack off and was staggered at just how deep the plugs sit in the cylinder heads :o

I still marvel at what a brilliant job they did of the V6 and how it's all packaged in there. Everything is geat-attable and in some cases it's easier than on the Activa or 2.1TD. In short, there is nothing to be afraid of in a V6 except it's incredible complexity but really it looks worse than it is. Like a dog having a bark worse than its bite :lol:

Having disturbed so much wiring, I shudder to think how many electrical faults I've made for myself when it all goes back together :lol:

On that subject, my next-door neighbour came to check on progress this afternoon. Seeing how dismembered thisngs are getting she asked a question: "Do you think you'll ever succeed in fixing it Jim or will it end up being scrapped?"

I can see where she was coming from but no, defeat is not an option in this case. The V6 will live even if it takes me all the summer...

In fact several neighbours now make regular visits to inspect progress...

Anyway, I'm having too much fun with it to even contemplate for a minute ever giving up on it even though I fairly admit it's the biggest challange I've attempted to date :)

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Post by andmcit »

Jim, I actually thought the gearbox would have to come out with the
engine; I've been here myself removing a ZF 4hp14 autobox on the 2.0i
Xantia TWICE!! The loom can be undone off the engine but there'd be
little point as it snakes all over it and it would be an additional pita to
undo it.

I take it you've got the most photographed Xantia V6 enginebay ever!? :lol:

Andrew

jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

well done Jim

Yep it was nice to remove mine from the V6.. it took no more time than an xud and was more enjoyable thanks to the loom and other bits remaining in place.. (notwithstanding the driveshaft shenanigans) :D

I had a thought..

if Dad comes over next Sat, and I also do, I can give you a couple hours , say midday/early aft?

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

jgra1 wrote: I had a thought..

if Dad comes over next Sat, and I also do, I can give you a couple hours , say midday/early aft?
That's a good and perfect thought John :D By then I should have it all redy to lift out and between us...

Must check I have sufficient (strong) chain and "D" shackles for the job as the V6 has four lifting eyes rather than the customary two in a 4 cylinder....

Did you get my PM the other day?

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Post by addo »

I'm wondering why you aren't lifting the car off the subframe, rather than trying to hoick it all out the top? After all, that's how they were assembled.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

The engine and gearbox is suspened between the chassis rails Adam and the only connection to the subframe is the lower engine mount which provides lateral support only. In fact, the subframe can be dropped leaving the engime dangling between the chassis rails...

I once removed the engine and gearbox from a Fix Or Repair Daily by the method you suggest. It worked well too :D Sadly, a method not applicable to a Xantia :( I did look into it...