CitroJim's AX, C3 Picasso, Cycling and Running Tales

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 30 Jan 2010, 23:37

CitroJim wrote:
XantiaMan583 wrote:Do you know the price of a new ram yet? Maybe get a group buy going If you want i'll check with Duff Morgan as they always do me a good deal there.
Not yet Gareth but I've expecting a pain in the wallet

I'd really appreciate if you could sound out Duff Morgan as I trust them and we don't have a decent Stealer here now

Ask him for a Ram and you'll likely end up with a male sheep

I'll pop in on Monday, if you can find me a part number, even better.

Toby, a weep is normal

Only cack yourself when you have to top up the LHM every day

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 30 Jan 2010, 23:41

Gareth, thanks

I'll get hold of a part numbers ...

Toby_HDi wrote: Look forward to tomorrow Jim, have many questions for you I shall be keeping a close eye on my ram

Arrive as early as you like Toby. Come early and you'll see Paul (citroenxm)...

Looking forward to seeing you

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 31 Jan 2010, 00:07

My indy garage has always noticed that mine was damp. Even to the point of a drip hanging from the bottom of it. But as I was told at MOT time, 'if it doesn't drop it isn't a drip'!

The last few weeks has seen much more than a drip. For over a year I believed the float on the LHM reservoir was stuck - only when this started had I ever seen it move. On Sunday last week I put about 1/2 litre of LHM in, following a substantial top-up the week before. But the float was still on the max level mark today (was probably slightly overfilled last week) so the leak doesn't seem to be so bad.

It seems to me that there is clearly a problem with these rams - I'm still leaning towards legal action (when I get around to having it looked at). If a reliable rear ram isn't available, the future of these cars is extremely bleak. And the responsibility for the supply of those rests with Citroen. A joint complaint may carry more weight that individual ones - after all, Citroen UK would happily forget these cars even exist.

James

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 31 Jan 2010, 00:14

Ram part numbers:

Front: 5090 02

Rear: To RP06778 5290 03 (Still available?)
From RP06779 5090 04

James

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 31 Jan 2010, 07:57

Thanks for the part numbers James

I've just published my guide to replacing a rear ram here

Any comments or feedback would be most welcome...

It looks easier now having written it up

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 31 Jan 2010, 08:18

Sl4yer wrote:My indy garage has always noticed that mine was damp. Even to the point of a drip hanging from the bottom of it. But as I was told at MOT time, 'if it doesn't drop it isn't a drip'!

The last few weeks has seen much more than a drip. For over a year I believed the float on the LHM reservoir was stuck - only when this started had I ever seen it move. On Sunday last week I put about 1/2 litre of LHM in, following a substantial top-up the week before. But the float was still on the max level mark today (was probably slightly overfilled last week) so the leak doesn't seem to be so bad.

It seems to me that there is clearly a problem with these rams - I'm still leaning towards legal action (when I get around to having it looked at). If a reliable rear ram isn't available, the future of these cars is extremely bleak. And the responsibility for the supply of those rests with Citroen. A joint complaint may carry more weight that individual ones - after all, Citroen UK would happily forget these cars even exist.

James

I agree, this part is not a consumable and should last at least 100k and 10 years or more, likewise a replacement should not last 3 years. Had i bought one and found it leaking, i would be writing to Citroen UK complete with all the other people who have had issues. This would be the best step, power in numbers to show its not an isolated case.

With so few on the roads in comparison to other Xantia's its crucial some sort of support is gained to ensure the future survival and viability of these cars. As they get older, the risks get higher and unless you have a disposable income and like wasting money, throwing £300 at a ram every few years isnt something i would want to do, so maybe setting aside a 'Ram Fund' just incase might be a good idea

As for the drip and drop issues, i think a lot of it is down to the discretion of the garage doing the MOT. Many cars have their quirks, for example my Maestro's and Montego's used to have excess play in the power steering rack which would be eliminated when running, i have heard some stories of people replacing racks because of this only to find the new one is exactly the same! After a while knowledge gets passed around and its accepted as a design quirk that does not affect safety.

In the same way with the Activa rams, they were clearly not 100% thought out for the job, so a minor weep in cold weather should be considered one of those quirks that you live with, and doesnt cause any safety or functionality issues. It doesnt make it right, but when you own a car like this its something you have to accept.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 31 Jan 2010, 08:31

Indeed Gareth,

We Activa owners really do need to do something to ensure continuity of supply of good quality rams. As you say, three years is not good, however you look at it.

Not only with Citroen, we need to look at the possibility of a substitute or refurbishment of them.

Handyman, we need to speak on this subject

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 31 Jan 2010, 08:50

Is a ram completely sealed once manufactured? I've never looked at one close enough, but as its one area on the ram that always causes a problem, there must be a clever engineer out there that could think of a heavy duty solution to the problem, or as you say, an alternative part is found.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 31 Jan 2010, 09:14

Yes, it is completely sealed

The construction seems to be that the ram proper is in a tube, much like a shock absorber and this tube crimps to the cast base (the bit with the eye and pipe bosses) and the whole shebang is sealed by a rubber ring between them that seems to be the source of leaks. If you pull up the gaiter, you can see the crimp ring as shown by the green arrow in the photo below.

The red arrow shows the rubber sealing ring...

getting it apart would be a challenge...

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 31 Jan 2010, 09:46

Question is, who is brave enough to put a cutter to it and dissect?

Mines fine fortunatly, after going ouit last night and placing a plate underneath, there was no drip, and after a icy morning drive it was actually bone dry, phew!

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 31 Jan 2010, 09:54

Seriously, send it to one of the hydraulic ram repair places. At the least, their diagnosis will give you ammunition for some sort of consumer claim process.

That "redgold" fellow might be a looper, but his business approach seems sound enough - diagnose, quote, proceed to repair ASAP if possible/authorised.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 31 Jan 2010, 20:29

That's a good thought Adam. I guess to them, a ram is a ram. Certainly worth a shot...

Today has been a real FCF mini-meet

Paul (Citroenxm), Toby (Toby_HDi) and Xac...One reason Paul came down was to collect the MK2 silver bonnet from the V6 we broke.

We were all a bit dubious if it would fit in a Xantia hatch and for a while it looked as if it wouldn't but Paul preserved, traied all angles and finally, after removing one back seat, it did. Quite a remarkable feat!

We continued the diagnosis of Toby's electrovalve problems and found the cause. Checking the voltage to the electrovalves showed nothing at all to the rear valve and a very low voltage to the front one. A duff ECU and proved by doing a quick swap with a MK1 ECU. Although incompatible with a MK2, it did spark both electrovalves into life and resulted in very healthy clicks and humming from both

More then likely the VN05Ns in the ECU have failed and Toby will be swapping them in due course. At £3.15 each it's worth a go.

We also noticed Toby's rear ram was swinging about a bit on the lower eye, by around a quarter inch

This showed the ram bush was a bit worn.

It was. This is all that was left of it:

I spun up one of my specials in the lathe and fitted it.. Hopefully Toby will enjoy a quieter ride home...

The lat job looked at was the Activa Accumulator which has defied previous attempts to be removed. It defied me too

I reckon the only answer now is to remove the sphere bracket complete with sphere, put it in a big vice and give it some serious treatment involving heat, Plus-Gas, some force and a Pleiades tool.

All in all, Toby has a good Activa and for the price he paid, very well bought.

It only has a few faults to sort and then it'll be really rather good.

All in all, an excellent weekend of various spannering, nattering and fettling. Just what the doctor ordered really - I've missed a good bout of car work for a couple of weekends now and just the tonic I need to set me up for the coming week.

Thanks Paul, Toby and Xac for a very pleasant weekend. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did...

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 31 Jan 2010, 20:59

Was great to meet Toby and see Paul again.

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 31 Jan 2010, 22:32

Excellent day it was indeed. Good to meet Paul and Xac, thanks for the sausage rolls!

Many thanks to Jim for his efforts on my Activa. The ride home was much improved with the new bush in place. Must thank you for that mean chili con carne, mmmmmm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 02 Feb 2010, 08:40

Toby_HDi wrote:Must thank you for that mean chili con carne, mmmmmm

No worries Toby and pleased the ride home was better. Just wait until the ECU is sorted and the spheres replaced

You think it's good now but it'll be a million times better then...

I swallowed hard and ordered a new rear ram for mine yesterday from our local Stealer who is actually a Pug dealer foremost. They were very helpful actually

Cost was a bit eye-watering though. £406