late bx 1.9 diesel cooling
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1802
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
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RichardW
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 12440
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
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No, the Xantia one deesn't count! The BX one is all black, and the bottom part has ridges on it so that the water level can be read - the tube needs to be removed to do so. My Sister's 87 19RD had one (until she got a new rad!), I am pretty sure my parents 88 16RS had one, as did their 84 14E. I don't think my 89 14E did. TD's and 16Vs will not have one as they have a remote expansion tank which has a bar across it to indicate the correct level.
Keep up the search, Vanny, you can mount it as a trophy when you find one!!
Richard
Keep up the search, Vanny, you can mount it as a trophy when you find one!!
Richard
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Jon
Ah, yes, the famous BX level tube. As Richard says, only fitted to BX with no separate header tank.Completetely uselss ridged black tube that sits inside rad filler neck. If it was used to check the level the idea was to withdraw it from the rad neck, and see where the water level was on the tube. In reality, drops of coolant would adhere to the tube and gave no real idea of level at at all.
The tube was generally consigned to a round recepticle in the corner of the workshop, and level established by looking down the filler neck, if about 3 inches from the top then all was generally well!
Jon Wood
[email protected]
The tube was generally consigned to a round recepticle in the corner of the workshop, and level established by looking down the filler neck, if about 3 inches from the top then all was generally well!
Jon Wood
[email protected]
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David W
- Posts: 439
- Joined: 30 Apr 2001, 17:49
Tom,
I'm quite worried about your cooling system. If you are unsure about any trapped air you risk doing the head gasket because air around the thermostat will mean it may not open, it needs to be immersed in coolant.
With huge respect to Jon I never try and bleed one of these systems without a header tank on the rad. You need to get the air round the system and out of the bleed points before the engine is running/pressurised. If your filler is at a lower level than the highest point the air cannot bleed out.
Of course if you are lucky and do as Jon says the air might just bleed out as the system pressurises or heats but I wouldn't rely on it for a "difficult" system like yours.
We scrapped our last BX by running it in just the condition you describe (because we were just too busy to repair it and the car was worth nothing), after a few days (despite topping up daily) the head went in a big way.
Try the procedure as described below and see how you get on. At least you will be able to watch the bubbles at they rise in the header tank, at the 'stat opens you should see a big gulp of air and then the bubbles should tail off to nothing. If they keep coming you might be looking at the head gasket.
David W Coolant Fill & Bleed Methods:
First locate all the bleed points on your particular engine. These may include one on the radiator opposite the filler cap, two on the thermostat housing, one on the small hose that leaves the thermostat housing, one on the metal heater feed pipe just behind the camshaft cover, one on the heater hose just to the rear of the engine, one on a small hose running just behind the radiator. I do not want to be specific to a particular model/year as I have seen cars with odd combinations of the normal set-up, just carefully look for them all.
With the engine cool remove the filler cap and fabricate some sort of header tank that will give about an extra 300mm head of water. Mine is very simple. It is a large plastic funnel for filling up tractor fuel that has a nozzle about the same size as the filler hole and holds 3 litres of coolant. I cut the nozzle at a point so that the taper just goes into the radiator/expansion tank filler hole and a firm push will keep it wedged there. I have seen loads of other clever solutions to this with little tanks held on a stand and filler hoses that connect to a modified radiator cap boss, I used mine because it was lying about at the time and has worked OK for 8 years now.
Now top up the system with coolant and allow the funnel/header tank to fill about 2/3rds. Bleed each coolant bleed point in turn until bubble-free coolant is seen. Close them all firmly. Start the engine and allow it to run at a fast idle until the thermostat opens and the radiator becomes fully hot. During this period you should see loads of small bubbles appear in the funnel/header tank, and as the thermostat opens a huge amount of air often bubbles up. Now stop the engine and bleed each point in turn again. Use great care as the coolant will be scalding. Top up the funnel as needed during this to keep it about 2/3rds full at all times. Close all bleed points finally and re-start the engine. Allow it to run for up to another five minutes for all the remaining small air bubbles to bleed off. When you are happy stop the engine and remove the funnel. Put the radiator cap back on with the coolant still right to the top (ie overfilled by cold standards). Allow the car to cool completely then check the level and add/remove coolant as needed. Give the car two days normal use then check the level again when completely cold. Again add/remove to get the level spot on. Only now consider this an accurate level to monitor from.
Why is this bleeding crucial to the BX? Well the thermostat and coolant temperature warning sensors are in a position that is easily left air-locked if this procedure isn't properly carried out. And these do not work properly in air, only if the coolant is in contact with them. So it is possible after a water loss, and re-filling without bleeding, for the engine to go above the thermostat opening temperature without it allowing coolant to the radiator. Then because the temperature senders are also in the air lock they don't indicate a problem. Result engine cooks and the head gasket/head are damaged.
Many BX (diesel in particular) head gasket problems follow a simple loss of water incident after a few days. It is my belief this is often due to the problem of bleeding the system rather than the initial fault damaging the head.
Well hope that essay helps, come back guys with any arguments!
David
I'm quite worried about your cooling system. If you are unsure about any trapped air you risk doing the head gasket because air around the thermostat will mean it may not open, it needs to be immersed in coolant.
With huge respect to Jon I never try and bleed one of these systems without a header tank on the rad. You need to get the air round the system and out of the bleed points before the engine is running/pressurised. If your filler is at a lower level than the highest point the air cannot bleed out.
Of course if you are lucky and do as Jon says the air might just bleed out as the system pressurises or heats but I wouldn't rely on it for a "difficult" system like yours.
We scrapped our last BX by running it in just the condition you describe (because we were just too busy to repair it and the car was worth nothing), after a few days (despite topping up daily) the head went in a big way.
Try the procedure as described below and see how you get on. At least you will be able to watch the bubbles at they rise in the header tank, at the 'stat opens you should see a big gulp of air and then the bubbles should tail off to nothing. If they keep coming you might be looking at the head gasket.
David W Coolant Fill & Bleed Methods:
First locate all the bleed points on your particular engine. These may include one on the radiator opposite the filler cap, two on the thermostat housing, one on the small hose that leaves the thermostat housing, one on the metal heater feed pipe just behind the camshaft cover, one on the heater hose just to the rear of the engine, one on a small hose running just behind the radiator. I do not want to be specific to a particular model/year as I have seen cars with odd combinations of the normal set-up, just carefully look for them all.
With the engine cool remove the filler cap and fabricate some sort of header tank that will give about an extra 300mm head of water. Mine is very simple. It is a large plastic funnel for filling up tractor fuel that has a nozzle about the same size as the filler hole and holds 3 litres of coolant. I cut the nozzle at a point so that the taper just goes into the radiator/expansion tank filler hole and a firm push will keep it wedged there. I have seen loads of other clever solutions to this with little tanks held on a stand and filler hoses that connect to a modified radiator cap boss, I used mine because it was lying about at the time and has worked OK for 8 years now.
Now top up the system with coolant and allow the funnel/header tank to fill about 2/3rds. Bleed each coolant bleed point in turn until bubble-free coolant is seen. Close them all firmly. Start the engine and allow it to run at a fast idle until the thermostat opens and the radiator becomes fully hot. During this period you should see loads of small bubbles appear in the funnel/header tank, and as the thermostat opens a huge amount of air often bubbles up. Now stop the engine and bleed each point in turn again. Use great care as the coolant will be scalding. Top up the funnel as needed during this to keep it about 2/3rds full at all times. Close all bleed points finally and re-start the engine. Allow it to run for up to another five minutes for all the remaining small air bubbles to bleed off. When you are happy stop the engine and remove the funnel. Put the radiator cap back on with the coolant still right to the top (ie overfilled by cold standards). Allow the car to cool completely then check the level and add/remove coolant as needed. Give the car two days normal use then check the level again when completely cold. Again add/remove to get the level spot on. Only now consider this an accurate level to monitor from.
Why is this bleeding crucial to the BX? Well the thermostat and coolant temperature warning sensors are in a position that is easily left air-locked if this procedure isn't properly carried out. And these do not work properly in air, only if the coolant is in contact with them. So it is possible after a water loss, and re-filling without bleeding, for the engine to go above the thermostat opening temperature without it allowing coolant to the radiator. Then because the temperature senders are also in the air lock they don't indicate a problem. Result engine cooks and the head gasket/head are damaged.
Many BX (diesel in particular) head gasket problems follow a simple loss of water incident after a few days. It is my belief this is often due to the problem of bleeding the system rather than the initial fault damaging the head.
Well hope that essay helps, come back guys with any arguments!
David
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tomsheppard
- Posts: 1802
- Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 14:46
- x 1