HDi 2.0 8V wont start when cold - FIXED - NOT - YES

[citroenxm]

Hmmm, that was my plan Chris, was to have a second spare set in, however, mine decided to go tits up... so I had to use the hdi 90 set.

Ive got another set, i know work, but also load of other injectors about the place but the injectors are unknown. Theres a few pumps around.

Im going to send a couple of engine pumps to a well known member to open up and have a look inside at how they work!!

[Chris570]

I was chatting with him on sunday, it would be nice if that knowledge can be added to the ever growing list of FCF skills

Injector repair may well be beyond what we can do though.

[citroenxm]

Yes these pizo activated injectors are a bit more sophisticated then the ole idi xud unscrew injectors..

[Chris570]

blu-tac should do it

[addo]

Liked.

[jgra1]

have not had chance to run the lexia on her this am. But for sure the Glow plugs received a measured 15.8V for about 6 seconds, just like the old TD days,,
no question now I am going to replace all 4 plugs, and carry on driving the C5 as normal after an interesting 2 weeks, will give the Battery back to ECP unless anyone wants a brand new one at a good price,,

will sort the injector soon as well though,,
sorted

[taffy]

thats interesting cause my glow plugs are getting 7v?

[jgra1]

should be more than that taffy.. god knows how mine are getting 15+ , but....

[Xantidote]

How on earth do you manage to get 15+ volts at your glowplugs? Is your voltmeter suspect?

[jgra1]

no idea lol.,, voltmeter digital and good.. will recheck later,, but main point is, the ecu is asking for the GP's for a few seconds, and at a guess most of mine will be suspect. ordered a set of Beru's.. will report back

[jgra1]

no voltage to plugs this afternoon.. temp outside abotu14C ..
no stored errors that I can find either.. maybe the car needs to try and start for some time to log a pre heater error, but with my new technique of spraying easy start and running around to the key there isnt time ..

[astramanmazdaman]

Hi I am new to the forum but I have worked on these fuel systems quite a few times.
The most telling post was silver/metal shards in the bottom of the fuel filter.This shows that the fuel pump piston(s) are breaking down and the pressure produced will be low on cranking.Its a pump failure..
For the engine to start the injectors have to be switched on by the ECU and this only happens when it registers 200 bar in the rail. Readings of 50+bar and startup are misleading the scanned pressure is always lagging behind the actual rail pressure produced by the pump.From rest when the engine has been shut down for a while when there is no residual pressure in the rail The first few rotations of the pump produce 60-80 bar the second 120 - 160 the third 200+ this happens very rapidly then once it fires the engine speed/pump speed rapidly rises along with the rail pressure.(this is why easy start often works,because of the kick it gives to engine speed).The lexia/diagbox takes snapshots in time and can be misleading.
I have had cars with hard starting problems due to batteries getting old ,poor earths,and often with older vehicles the starter motor just getting tired.The starter is one of the most common itis asked to do a lot over the years ALSO count the teeth on the starter if you are going to replace it.Slow cranking causes a slow rise in fuel rail pressure.I had one owner who had been sold injectors,pump battery every thing except the starter and no one had picked up that the engine groaned over.....
Glow plugs normally do not operate until minus temperatures and are controlled by the ECU with reference to the coolant temperature sensor(worth checking on diagnostic equipment as a matter of course, both from cold and when hot).I have had the glowplug running for nearly 10 seconds in minus 15c prior to cranking.In normal use the glow plugs will be running after a cold start for 3 mins ,this is to aid combustion,cut down on diesel knock and reduce emissions.If you suspect glow plugs are not doing what they should before changing get the engine hot as it aids removal.Stuck open EGR valves are rare on vucuum operated ones(common on the later electric systems)to check undo rubber pipe to it and suck,often they creak as they open then release it should close with a audible snap ,if in double that it is closing it can be blanked off at the inlet manifold.
When replacing the pump remember CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN wash down all pipes before undoing.Also best practise is to renew the cambelt,check the water pump and i always time up the pump using the holes,Iknow the HP pump does not need to be timed but it seems to run better that way.
If you remove your pump a diesel specialist can test it very quickly normally for @ £30, scrap yard pumps may just be that,with "it was running fine when it came in" But not on your car.therefore its your fault etc..It may also have been to the moon and back.The injectors also do not like being dropped.they are quite delicate in some ways
If I think of any thing else I will try and post it
best of luck
Mick

[CitroJim]

Thanks Mick, a most excellent and valuable first post there Much useful info all in one place.

[jgra1]

yes, thanks a lot Mick..

I mentioned the small metallic pieces in the fuel filter,, I wondered if they may have been from the LP pump, but of course as you say they could be from break up in the HP pump..
I will change the glows anyway.. it is a cheapish service item.. I definitely see +ve to them at the moment..

This morning there is frost on the car ..brrr...

The car starts quite well, when it's been left for day/days .. as long as it's summer temperatures,, just not at all when below around 7C ..

John

[Northern_Mike]

The starter is one of the most common itis asked to do a lot over the years ALSO count the teeth on the starter if you are going to replace it.Slow cranking causes a slow rise in fuel rail pressure.I had one owner who had been sold injectors,pump battery every thing except the starter and no one had picked up that the engine groaned over.....

Yes. I've said this about the starter on countless occasions after having the same problem a couple of years ago after I replaced the battery and glowplugs. I called my Citroen specialist said *immediately* that it was the starter motor, and he was spot on.

Apparently, no one believes me, and replaces everything else because their starter sounds "ok"... so did mine. It just wasn't spinning fast enough.