Are garages CRAP?

[Peter.N.]

If you or anyone you know subscribes to 'Which?' they run a guide to locally recomended garages.

XantiaDave

I'm glad I don't live where you do, my insurance last year was about £150.00, mind you it will no doubt increase this year as my wife wrote the car off last year and I had an accident last week

Peter

[the bish]

Hi folks just joined the forum, and looking back through old post found this thread.

I've just returned to the Citroen 'family' having just bought a C5 2.0 litre HDi Exclusive Auto.

I previously owned a BX 17TGD for seven years, followed by a Xantia 19 Turbo Diesel which I kept for six years.

For the last three and a half years I defected to Nissan, owning a 1.8 petrol which my son now has.

Like most motorists I've had some bad experiences with garages, however for most of the past seventeen years I've used A Graham Harper in Glasgow for the servicing of my cars. (They specialise in Citroen.)
http://www.grahamharper.com/

I have a friend who's used them for even longer. (His latest visit was when the dual mass flywheel/clutch assembly on his recently purchased Peugeot 307 disintegrated. )

In all that time I've only had one slight problem when a front ball joint on my Primera was incorectly fitted and worked loose, but they fitted a completely new part and sorted it out quickly.

Other than that one incident I've always been completely satisfied with their standard of repairs and servicing.

I did try a more local garage for servicing when I bought my Primera, but quickly reverted as I wasn't happy with their standards. (Rear brake pads down to the metal two months after a service and MOT with no advisement on their state of wear.)

No shares in the place, honest. Just believe good service should be recognised.

[cachaciero]

HDI, I'd be a little bit circumspect about offering advice about gas equipment on this forum, as you could put yourself in an awkward position with regards to the Gas Regulations, which can be deemed as a criminal offence. Anybody dealing with gas equipment must be qualified and registered with CORGI or whatever the new body is called now.

Only in the way of business, the owner of the house and the boiler can legally do what he likes to his gas installation, a point which CORGI and others try and obscure, although anybody that works on potentially explosive systems without any understanding or knowledge would be a little unwise.

Mind based upon some things I have seen and heard one could take the attitude that it could be just as dangerous getting a so say qualified engineer.

cachaciero

[frenchcarnut]

Late 80s - had a vauxhall. MOT failure suggested new engine mounting because "it leaned". Spent an afternoon in the rain struggling with hardly any tools, borrowed jacks and supports and eventually got off said mount. Looked perfectly sound to me and took it to dealer for replacement who told me there was nothing wrong with it. Bought a new one anyway, fitted it and noticed same "lean" (basically the mounting bracket was designed at an angle so there was expected to be some movement in the x-axis). Took the car back for a re-test, showed them the old mount to which they replied, "see, it was knackered look at all the scuff marks", which were basically just oil marks from the engine. They then didn't even look at the replacement to see if I'd refitted it okay and passed it!!! I was fresh faced back then and looked it; they clearly thought I was game for a rip off!!!

Early 90s - had an MOT done on an old VW Beetle. Failed on a bit of welding "that should cost about £50 but we don't do welding". My Dad's neighbour recommended an outfit who wanted to charge £700!!!!! Supposedly a mate of his. Some mate! Managed to get it done by leaving it with a fitter for a few hours where I worked (I used to work for a Anglo-Dutch van maker), and in his own time did for a few beers, afterwhich the Beetle passed with flying colours. Where did £700 come from?

Mid 90's - Citroen AX needed some MOT work (can't remember what it was), but when I picked it up, car had done about 80 additional miles - probably to pick up parts in the guise of testing!!!! Bloody disgrace.

Early 00s, main dealer call Xantia in for a recall (Timing belt warranty problem). A few months later, I was called in for another recall, only for Citroen dealer to turn around and insist it was the same recall as before and the job didn't need doing. Any apology for the day of I took from work (forget any compensation)? Not a chance!

Two years ago, a Citroen mechanic I had always trusted did my rear brakes after I asked him to sort out some binding issues. I also asked him to replace the front discs and pads. He charged me for the complete job, but when I got back, I decided to rotate the tyres for even wear, and noticed the fronts hadn't been touched. Should have done it myself, but I was going through a rough patch after Dad's death and just couldn't face it. Nor could I face the arguing. And he knew about Dad. B'Stard

Last year, took C5 for MOT. Garage who I'd been to for years (just for MOTs) insisted I left the car with them (for the next hour slot). I said I would only leave it for 30 minutes to do some shopping and insisted that it not be driven around (remembering above). Got back after about 45 minutes, it had passed MOT. I paid up and on the way back, noticed that most of the fuel had been syphoned off (it was full tank). When I got back, I telephoned the boss who said nothing, just remained silent while I ranted. Unbelievable!!! And what can you do? Go to the Police with a theft charge, and the garage will just insist I was embarking on a malicious falsehood. Where was the proof?

I have since found a garage that doesn't rip off, offers to show me the problem before embarking "on a journey" and supplies a list of work done with all the replaced parts available for viewing. The garage came recommended and I'm pleased, but it's been rare for me. An exception rather than the rule.

There have been other examples, but if I can do the job myself, I will - especially now.

[Old-Guy]

As I see it, the profitable sectors of the motor trade (tyres, exhausts, brakes, A/C, even clutches) have largely become the territory of specialist chains. Joe public wants everything as cheaply as possible (e.g. on-line shopping!) until they come unstuck. Then they turn to a local specialist for free help and advice! This is general; my wife owns a small fabric shop - it's common for people to come in with an expensive lot of fabric bought elsewhere, seeking free help and advice and maybe, if she's lucky, a few pounds-worth of 'notions' (bits and pieces) that the big stores and on-line outlets don't sell.

Dealerships are one-make specialists who only want to handle cars under 3-4 years old because the problems tend to be simpler, and as their owners are people/firms who can afford the depreciation on a (fairly) new car, they will pay through the nose for servicing and repairs. Dealerships have to do this to survive because they are required to have smart (i.e. expensive) premises, the nett margins on new cars are microscopic and both manufacturers and government (local and national) screw them at every opportunity. Don't believe me? Think how many big dealerships have gone bust over the last 10 years.

Independent specialists have the problems of generally dealing with older cars where problems are likely to be more extensive. Don't forget that the surviving number of any particular model dwindles by 20-25% per year, so they have to retain skills/knowledge on all the old (ever scarcer) models while acquiring those for models falling out of dealership care.

Out in the sticks, your local independent garage has to try to be reasonably competent on any make and model, but trouble-shooting obscure problems is very difficult without a wealth of model-specific experience.

We really shouldn't be surprised at a paralysed brain, "Oh God, it's one of those horrible weird complicated Citroens!" mentality!

Substitute "old Xantias" above for "Citroen" at a Citroen dealer.
But I'm constantly dismayed at the inability of the majority of people to apply any form of simple logical analysis to real-world problems. Perhaps this should not be too surprising because the principles of logic, as developed more than 2,000 years ago by the classic Greek philosophers (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and others) was a key part of any decent education from the Renaissance until the 1950s, but has entirely vanished from our education system at a time when it's more relevant to daily life than ever before.

[frenchcarnut]

But I'm constantly dismayed at the inability of the majority of people to apply any form of simple logical analysis to real-world problems. Perhaps this should not be too surprising because the principles of logic, as developed more than 2,000 years ago by the classic Greek philosophers (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and others) was a key part of any decent education from the Renaissance until the 1950s, but has entirely vanished from our education system at a time when it's more relevant to daily life than ever before.

If you want to take logic to a meaningful conclusion then perhaps accepting that the current form of business practice is completely unsustainable and based upon a model of infinite consumerist growth that taps into the finite resources that can be mustered by a small unforgiving planet. But of course, whatever convenient model is being used to assess "real-world" problems, there's no excuse for blatant ripping off, deception and fraud. A simple refusal to do the work, where cost-effectiveness and profitability are simply not viable, or instead a more transparent approach as to why some charges are being applied. If the guy in one of my examples above, who wanted to charge £700 for a bit of welding - a job he was advertised as most proficient in and should therefore do, had decided to charge £250, then I would probably have gone ahead accepting all sorts of overheads as justification for the charges. As it was £700 was simply an attempt to extort money. But I've come across SO many examples of work being claimed as done, NOT being performed. I've had friends and relatives who've had cylinder heads, oil filters, brake linings, suspension components etc, all claimed they were changed, when test marks showed they hadn't. I don't think any intellectual appraisal of applied logic can excuse such fraud - regardless of market pressures and financial reality dictating policy. As for main dealers often charging much more for parts than independents, this would be more acceptable if done without a 'take-it-or-leave-it" shrug and an air of arrogant inevitability.

[rmunns]

Come to live in France.

I had two bad experiences in garages in the UK in the 60's, with my first two cars. Brake failure followed one visit and I was lucky not to have had a serious accident.

Never went to a garage again except for MoT's.

Moved here 2006. Not now so able to tackle jobs as when I was younger, so I have used garages here.

Invariably fixed prices, everything called up on computer, written quote valid 30 days, if work is done then it will be exactly on time and as quoted. And, in my experience, done properly.

And, of course, Citroens here are bread-and-butter, all garages know them inside-out.

Not the reason we came to live here, but a nice bonus.

[Bren]

My local garage is genuine, this is why I use them.

My brothers Passat TDI (130bhp PD engine) was making a whistling sound, so on my recommendation, he took it there.

After some investigation, they found that it was simply a loose pipe, it was resecured and taken for a run - all was ok.

Cost? Nothing - they refused to take any money. A good way of getting customers methinks.

[messerschmitt owner]

my local garage - oxstalls service station longlevens gloucester is fantastic - as is the one next to work (Hyde garage, Minchinhampton).

I recommend my local garage - easily the best I have ever had the pleasure of using - knowledgable, honest and genuinely helpful

[addo]

We need to be even-handed.

I can cite a recent example of DIY incompetence, having just pinched one of the heater elbow O-rings on my Xantia and then wondering why it leaked everywhere!

At least I didn't pay $100/hr for someone else to do it...

[MJM]

>>my local garage - oxstalls service station longlevens gloucester is fantastic - as is the one next to work (Hyde garage, Minchinhampton). <<

If you go to the bottom of Hyde hill from your works, (turn right just before the cattle grid if you're heading for Minchinhampton) then turn right at the bottom of the hill you will find Moss Motors. Citroen indy and another good honest knowledgable local garage.

[spider]

My local garage is genuine, this is why I use them.

My brothers Passat TDI (130bhp PD engine) was making a whistling sound, so on my recommendation, he took it there.

After some investigation, they found that it was simply a loose pipe, it was resecured and taken for a run - all was ok.

Cost? Nothing - they refused to take any money. A good way of getting customers methinks.

I used to do things like that too (no charge)

[messerschmitt owner]

>>my local garage - oxstalls service station longlevens gloucester is fantastic - as is the one next to work (Hyde garage, Minchinhampton). <<

If you go to the bottom of Hyde hill from your works, (turn right just before the cattle grid if you're heading for Minchinhampton) then turn right at the bottom of the hill you will find Moss Motors. Citroën indy and another good honest knowledgable local garage.

that's good to know as the other 'Citroen specialist' in Stroud won't touch an XM - I did ask them what kind of specialist they were!

[CitroJim]

I'm pleased to report the local garage I took Robyn's car to came out very good indeed.

I was most satisfied with the work and service and for me, that's saying something.

Good thing is that they were happy to have a natter and explain a few things they found on Robyn's car, such as a cat that is on it's 9th life

For anyone local, I'm happy to recommend them.