C4 Grand Picasso as Xantia estate replacement? YES

[RichardW]

Semi-auto box = flappy paddles?

Correct

How does one immediately tell a 2011 reg that has the earlier engine (I once salvaged parts from a Xantia built in late '95 but not registered for some 9 months!)?

16V engine:



Note plastic cover and tubular turbo outlet

8V engine:



Felt cover and square ribbed turbo outlet.

The 8V engine has a lower CO2 rating, takes the tax down from £175 or so to £130.

Is the popular 16V 1.6HDi post 2010 troublesome?

Like I say, they went back to an 8V unit in 2011 which is much less problem than the earlier engine. Having said that, my parent's one needed a new injector at 45k!!

[Old-Guy]

Richard,
Thanks very much - all crystal clear now! A picture's worth a thousand words.
Just been having another look at what's on Autoraider: quite a number of 2011 1.6HDi 16V VTR+s advertised - most without engine pix, one that does shows an 8V!

UPDATE: Having talked to the private seller of one of the above, an explanation emerges. The car was ordered as a Grand Picasso 1.6HDi 16V VTR+ in May 2010. The car was eventually registered/delivered (in February 2011!) with paperwork stating 1.6HDi 16V, but with emissions and tax class at the lower figures of an 8V! A photo taken today is definitely of the same external engine configuration as Richards second photo above. So it appears that Citroen held up orders for RHD Grand Picassos for some months in 2010, before releasing them for build to 2011 spec with 8V engines. Unfortunately, I don't have a VIN for any of these cars to see what service.citroen shows.

[Richard_C]

Notes to OP, a former Hillman Hunter owner, mine was a Mk1 1750, did 168k miles before expiring in a cloud of blue smoke - took head off (the car, not mine) to find a wholly holy piston and a collection of very worn piston ring remains. Decided to rebuild but the months passed and the body rotted, had no garage then just a driveway. A guy from work towed it away because he wanted some bits and I still have the 10/- note, that's ten shillings for those not around pre 1971, I took in exchange.

Back to topic.

5 years ago I looked at a GP as a replacement for a Saab 9-5 estate. Ticked most of the boxes but I stumbled on a very good C5 Estate which I bought. Serendipity. On the same used car lot as a GP I was looking at.

In my looking I found a few things that might be useful:

Nice to drive, not quite the limo that the Xantia is (had one of those once) but fine.
Rear seats (middle row) plenty of legroom but a bit hard and unwelcoming in comparison to Saab or Xantia. If you have regular back seat passengers (e.g. teenage sized children) get them to give a verdict.
The ones with the self levelling rear suspension don't, if I recall, have room for a spare wheel
The ETG auto I drove scared me. Good enough on the move but let me compare the SAAB auto and the GP auto:

Arrive at roundabout, trickle along at 5mph as you do in an auto, see gap in traffic, press down accelerator.

SAAB ECU: he wants to go fast, what fun, I will immediately drop into the lowest available gear, empty content of fuel tank into injectors, hey, we're off .....

CITROEN ETG: hmmm, maybe he wants to go a bit faster, lets pour a coffee and think about it, well, looks like he's sure about this so when I've finished my drink I will change down a gear, OK, that's done, now I wonder if he is serious about it, lets just try a bit of gentle acceleration, OK, hey he's changed his mind, wonder why? Oh, the gap in the traffic has gone. Oh well, always next time .......

Ok, I exaggerate and I'm sure I would have got used to it, but it seemed very sluggish/uncertain off the line. I think the later ones had better software, I drove a more recent C3 ETG and it was much more responsive.

Seems like a lot of GPs and UGPs (un-grand Picassos) went out on Motability contracts, nothing wrong with that because the lease includes maintenance so services should be done. Maybe its all a bit on a shoestring and you do see some with cheap tyres on. I did see one or two that looked ratty inside, scratched plastics, not well looked after, but also saw a couple of excellent ones.

Lots of Motability leases are being cancelled after medical reviews: seems a very tough way to deal with people many of whom have had help for years, but it does mean lots of ex motability cars coming onto the market early - you might be able to find a bargain.

So looked at GP but choosing C5 then, 5 years on I've just changed C5 for a C4 un-grand Picasso new shape, we have occasional need for a big load capacity but not 7 seats.

[Old-Guy]

Sorry chaps - yet another question.
A tidy Grand Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi on a 60 or 11 plate (8V) seems the best bet (its a typical model-change situation with the published specs being unreliable - to put it politely).
I've noticed at least one advertised with "puncture repair kit" (a solidified or empty can of 'sealer' and a feeble 12V 'compressor'), another with a 'space-saver' tyre, and yet another with a full-size spare. It occurs to me that a 5th wheel from a scrapper shouldn't be too hard to find.
Can anyone tell me for definite please if all VTR+s have space for a full size spare?
Is the spare in an external carrier like a Xantia?

Richard, a couple or 3 years ago, I drove about 50 miles in someone else's pride and joy - a C3 VTR EGS The only other flappy-paddle I've driven (so to speak) was a 911 Carrera. Guess which one was best - by light-years! The EGS was as slow and jerky (exactly as you describe), even in 'manual'. As we would expect, the 911 'change was instant and smooth as silk; sadly on a summer Friday afternoon I got it into 6th for all of 2 miles of clear road before having tread hard on the middle pedal for a rapidly approaching 50 limit. Sunday morning at first light would have been so much more fun!

[Paulmi16]

The 'compressor' on the C4 at work is anything but feeble, it pumps up van tyres from flat with ease, so much that when it goes back at the end of contract it will be missed. The car wont.

[GiveMeABreak]

Sorry chaps - yet another question.
Can anyone tell me for definite please if all VTR+s have space for a full size spare?
Is the spare in an external carrier like a Xantia?

Can't say for sure some VTR+ models have a winch system for the spare:

[Old-Guy]

I think I'll have to go do some tyre kicking!

[Paul-R]

A winch? How does that work?

[RichardW]

No spare on ours - there's plenty of room under the floor, but there's no attachment mechanism. I believe you can get a mech as Mark points out, but I think for UK market not included on G-Ps - 5 seaters have them (that certainly seems to be the case on the 2010 brochure I found on citroennet: http://www.citroenet.org.uk/publicity-b ... -2010.html)

TBH when was the last time you had a puncture that you had to stop and change? And when was the last time you ruined a tyre such that pumping it up wouldn't have limped it to somewhere? OK, it's a bit of a fag if you have to get it towed, but perhaps once every half million miles is not the end of the world....!

[Old-Guy]

Richard

Boxing Day 1988, about 10pm, about 5 miles west of Stow-on-the-Wold doing 60-70 in steady rain towards Tewkesbury; O/S/F wheel hit a piece of bent steel plate a bit larger than a number plate, laying invisible in the road. Punched a tear in the shoulder of the tyre that I could put my hand through. Three children and Christmas presents in car; but we were on our way again in about 15 minutes on the spare wheel. A new tyre couldn't be fitted for several days until one of the local tyre places opened between the Christmas and New Year holidays. Not the first, nor the last, time that I've had a front tyre wrecked by debris in the road - perhaps because I used to do a lot of miles in the dark; debris is much more likely to be spotted and avoided in daylight. A space-saver would have got us home, but then we wouldn't have been able to visit my parents the following day (100 miles in the opposite direction). AA Recovery on Boxing night and no mobile phones in those days either!

That one was a long time ago, but my last incident was 2 years ago. Somewhere in West London I drove over broken glass shortly after picking up the blue VSX. Cuts to both N/S tyres spotted the following day when I wondered why both were a bit soft. I would guess that less than half the punctures I've had in the last 50 years would have been resealable let alone repairable.

[Richard_C]

I'm with you on that, its depends on where you go. Daytime ruptured tyre in the week and near urban areas, no problem. Halfway up an Alp late on a Saturday with 5 people headed for a ski holiday, different matter. Then their is repair-ability. I understand (but could be wrong) that once you use the rescue-goo for something like a nail hole, then a proper tyre mender fix cannot be done so a new tyre at £££ is needed.

Citroen dropped spares from a lot of the range but they are making a comeback. All new C4 Picassos get them, and I think all C3s.

[GiveMeABreak]

Here in the wilderness it's hedge cutting that does it every time! The tractors cut the hedges then clear off leaving sharp stems all over the road - my last 3 punctures have been down to these idiots.

[Old-Guy]

Here in the wilderness it's hedge cutting that does it every time! The tractors cut the hedges then clear off leaving sharp stems all over the road - my last 3 punctures have been down to these idiots.

Been there... but a few years since the last time - slow punctures due to multiple thorns in all 4 tyres. All repairable fortunately, but added up to quite a sum.

"Cut" isn't the word I'd use: SMASH is a more accurate description of the action of the usual (flail) 'mower' designed to deal with everything from grass to small trees, by way of wild flowers, road signs, plastic warning markers, rubbish of all sorts; shredded and flung to the four winds, the heavier it is the farther it flies!
I once saw an operator trying to disentangle a spring mattress from his machine there is such a thing as natural justice!

[GiveMeABreak]

I'd loved to of seen that - excellent!

[Old-Guy]

A Mazda 5 has been suggested as an alternative, but its Focus floorpan makes it more a 4½ (+2) than a 5-7 seater, so I'm now pretty sold on the idea of a post 2010 face-lift Grand C4 Picasso.
Given the reliability problems of the 16V and that we would probably keep a GP for 5-10 years, long-term reliability is a major concern. However, attempts to do my homework properly are being defeated by the lack of information on the engine changes for 2011. Various 'reviews' simply mention updated, lower emissions, 1.6 & 2.0 HDi engines, and then bang on about the HDi-e versions. The Wikipedia page doesn't even acknowledge the engine changes from 1/11/2010. Nowhere can I find a believable engine type which might allow me to discover some basic facts: Ford or PSA based? Belt or chain? In what other makes/models was this engine (identical spec.) used? Did the 8V 1.6 HDi continue to be installed in the GP post-2013 model revision?
There's a tidy 11-plate 8v 1.6HDi GP with 108k on the clock advertised on Autotrader. Way too many miles for seriously consideration, but is this a rare survivor, or an indication that that the 8V HDi may be as long-lived as the XUD9?
As always, your knowledge and comments gratefully received.
Guy