1997 Xantia 1.9TD Estate - 05/07

[vulgalour]

As Mike and I have been working at the Xantia today I've been cleaning bits we remove. Some parts have cleaned up exceptionally well, like the LHM reservoir. Here's a before from shortly after the car was bought.


Here's an after. Cillit Bang and plenty of hot water is superb for this sort of job and since it's quite a visible component in the engine bay it was really important to have it looking its best.


The only part so far to need any attention is the battery tray, it's had a preliminary clean and scrub and once dry we'll tackle the surface rust before dousing it in fresh black paint. New powdercoat would obviously be really nice, maybe that will happen in the future, I'd have it done white. In fact, I'd have a lot of components in the engine bay done white ideally, but that's likely a stupid idea with a dirty diesel.


Today's time spent on the Xantia brings us up to 6.5 hours since starting the job. The time I've spent cleaning components is disregarded, that's not vital to the job and is more an opportunity thing to rid the engine bay of seventeen years of grime. We did finally manage to liberate the gearbox from the car, even though it tried to take out two electrical conduits and three hydraulic pipes on its way.


The clutch friction plate was down to the rivets in places (no picture, I'll get one next time) and while it still had some life it wouldn't be long before it gave up. The inside of the bellhousing was full of black powdery clutch dust and clumps so it's clear that about as much use as possible was got from it. We gave the gearbox a douse in degreaser and jetwashed (being sure to protect bits that shouldn't get water contaminated) again to make reassembly less grim.


The hole for the gearbox does seem to be smaller than the gearbox itself, but I still suspect refitting is going to be easier than removal as it'll be less likely that will run the risk of pulling wires and pipes out. Going to be a horrible task, all the same.



Then I found out the clutch I'd bought was a push type, not a pull type. I was a little bit cross about this mistake on my part, the research I'd done had led me to believe there was only one type of clutch fitted to my age car and engine and that any listed for that use would be correct. I am now trying to get a refund for the clutch I've bought and we're hoping to obtain a correct clutch tomorrow. What a nuisance.

[CitroJim]

This is looking like a full restoration job

You are going to have one very nice Xantia at the end of all this work!

[vulgalour]

I blame seeing Chris' blue estate

[bxzx16v]

I'm sure there's a knack for doing a 1.9td xantia clutch, when my pal worked at a Citroen specialist a few years ago they could do one in under 4hrs, I had mine done and was surprised myself at how quick they were.

Mark

[vulgalour]

I reckon the next time we do one - if there is a next time - it'll take half as long because we'll know what needs to come off and where. Most of the time involved in this job has been figuring out where the layers of the onion are so we can get peeling.

[CitroJim]

There is a knack... Somewhere on this forum is my blow by blow account of doing a 1.9TD clutch that may well help...

By far the most difficult bit is getting the gearbox back on.. Getting the input shaft splines mated with the new clutch plate can be a little tricky.. Filing a small chamfer on the splines in the new driven plate to allow the input shaft to go home more easily can make quite a difference...

[lexi]

I always put the plate on and off pinion a dozen times. Not the first time I struggled to line up with an engine in air, to find that splines on plate were just not machined perfect or had burrs on them.
A nice job you are doing. Very useful vehicle. I loved mine. I welded a fitting for a detachable towbar..........to the front It could shift boats in and out of some awkward places so easily.

[vulgalour]

Fifteen hours.

This job is absolutely hateful, but it is also the worst job you can do on a Xantia. The second worst is welding and I've managed that one so it can only get easier from here, right?

We did, with the help of our engine brace thingy, get everything aligned. It was still an arse of a job so it was timely when my brother turned up and said "you just do this jiggle" which made the gearbox align with the engine and make it pretty smooth sailing. The clutch fork can be a nuisance but it went on first time and the actual changing of the clutch took about ten minutes.


It was actually surprising how easy the actual clutch change was considering how long it had taken us to get to this point. Six and a half hours to get to replacing the clutch and reseating the gearbox felt like it had taken a bit longer than it ought, but not daunting enough to make us worry about buttoning the rest up.


A hunt around the engine with all the bits off discovered a few possible oil leaks. The sump gasket seems to have been weeping for quite a long time. There's another leak up the back of the engine, one on the rocker cover gasket and another across the top on one of the pipes, but these are less clear so the plan is to get the engine steam cleaned or similar just so we can see where the oil is actually emerging to effectively be able to cure/lessen it.








To refit the gearbox the stud had to come out of the mount bracket. We needed to get it a bit warm to make this happen.



With everything connected, checked, the gearbox refilled with about 2ltrs of fresh correct oil and another 2ltrs of LHM in the reservoir we were ready to fire things up. Car started without complaint, no horrible smells or noises, LHM level going down nicely and just as we were about to tip another litre into the reservoir we got a terrific green waterfall out the bottom of the front bumper. Cat litter to the rescue and engine quickly turned off.


The front accumulator had been an absolute nightmare to refit anyway, the various brackets and fixings put up a fight for above an hour which was just stupid. The smaller pipe wouldn't line up and the larger one was now fountaining LHM out of the union. We suspect there's a missing seal for the larger - power steering? - pipe which means it can't hold the LHM in once any sort of pressure happens.

Utterly disheartened by it. The MoT is due on Tuesday and I'm not at all confident the car will be sorted in time now. We're talking to Citromatic on Monday to see what exactly is wrong. Worse case scenario is that we need a new pipe and a new accumulator and since I know that's the only sphere that hasn't yet been replaced it wouldn't be the worst thing to have to fit a new one.

Still, at least my brother remembered to bring up the clear side repeaters he got for me, which really tidy up the wings a lot.


Xantia is now in the bad books, it's been hogging space at the unit for 6 days now, which is four days too many.

[CitroJim]

It was still an arse of a job so it was timely when my brother turned up and said "you just do this jiggle" which made the gearbox align with the engine and make it pretty smooth sailing.

That's so typical You can struggle for hours with that and then another person come and has a jiggle and it snicks home just like that!

[vulgalour]

My brother has many, many, many years of fixing broken old cars so he's something of a good luck charm when you get stuck on a job.

Also found the likely culprit for the LHM fountain is a missing or damaged pipe seal. I didn't know about these seals, else I would have likely gone through and replaced all of them. There may be a weep of LHM from another union but since the LHM went absolutely everywhere I'm not sure if it's weeping or just wet. I'll find out on Monday.

Other than that, on reflection the whole debacle went relatively well, especially since it's the first clutch I've ever had any dealings with and the first LHM system I've ever disturbed. Having two people to do and show a lot of the work really helped too, to say I was out of my comfort zone would have been an understatement on this job.

[lexi]

You can never count up your hours and days on "hobby cars". If you do, it can never be justified.
As for your receipts......throw them away. They will only haunt you

[vulgalour]

Costs aren't too bad on this one really. If I assume the car is worth £500 with an MoT even with the outstanding cosmetic issues and the fact that white estate cars are undesirable, the cost of the work undertaken so far is still on the right side of the car's value.

£140 purchase price
£120 Valeo clutch
£20 gearbox oil
£30 LHM (might be an extra £10-20 depending on how much got thrown out)
£20 replacement rear light clusters
£20 Synergie wheel trims
TOTAL - £350

There's no big expenses looming at me, I know that I will need to do the front lower arm bushes soon, at some point I'd like to get a replacement windscreen and some fresh wipers, I want to sort out the recalcitrant alarm and find out where the water is coming in. But for a daily hack it's really in very good order and not at all disappointing.

[CitroJim]

That's made a good cheap car for true budget motoring. Bangeromics at it's very best without the pain and aggro of running an actual banger

[oscar]

You can't put a price on something you enjoy!
some of those are not really in costing as consumables so would need whatever car it was.
But end of the day it will be something you know and enjoy driving and i think of it this way if got shot of it if i buy something else is that going to be more work/a problem from day one or soon after?
but i had my one of these for many years same year and colour inc engine and nothing wrong with a white car as atleast if you have to paint it it's far easier than trying to deal with a metallic spray jobbie.
Mine was a real steal £32.50 all the keys and bits also.
If doing front bushes don't forget to set at right angle before bolting up or they rip to shreds soon.
Have a brand new set of front pads for that never got round to using plus some other bits like turbo and manifold,injectors,cam pulley the older type. plus a haynes manual.

[vulgalour]

"Enjoy" is a strong word with the Xantia. As someone put it to me, it's a car you fall in like with, not a car you fall in love with. But as the happy place between a head and a heart car it's perfect. The car I love is my Princess, as has been demonstrated by the fact I've put so much effort, time, tears and on many an occasion, blood and swear words into it. The Xantia is a different thing altogether, it's quite a stylish thing that's comfortable, capable and filling that sweet spot between old and new car that's very difficult to find. Certainly it's the newest and nicest car I've ever owned and I wouldn't want to go any newer, this is right on the edge of a car that I can look after myself because it's so mechanically complex and the added issues with the electronic side of things really does try my patience. There's a good reason I prefer the older stuff, it might not be as refined but for me it's a lot easier to live with when it comes to doing maintenance and repairs.

I'm a glutton for punishment though, I've inflicted a Renault 6 (find it here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =5&t=49883" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )on myself on purpose which is both old-and-simple and weird-and-French, probably has a myriad electrical problems and lets water in from an unknown location, just like the Xantia.

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I think I found the missing seal, it's gone all crumbly so it's probably just as well it's fallen out and is getting replaced tomorrow.  Guessing that because it's gone all crumbly and split it dropped off the pipe unnoticed when we dismantled everything so in a way it's done me a favour as it'll definitely get replaced this way.

 
Citromatic identified the seal as belonging to the main pressure feed and warned that once we've replaced the seal others might go, so it may be a routine of pulling pipes and replacing fiddly little O-rings to get the system LHM-tight before the MoT.  We're getting new seals delivered tomorrow but I've got to leave the job to Mike as I've got to crack on with artwork as I'm already behind on that front thanks to this stupid job.
 
MoT is due tomorrow, fat chance of me getting a working car in for it by then.  Thankfully, our local trusted MoT garage shares the same building so we needn't even go on the public highway to get the Xantia to them.