Time for a new Battery?

[Mandrake]

I'm confused, you say its now fixed, but that just changing the battery didn't fix it ?

They found a problem with the battery lead but didn't fix it ? Or did they ?

My V6 starts very quickly too. Despite all the problems I've had with lack of power and misfiring under load it starts the instant you turn the key. I just put it down to the fact that a V6 has 1 1/2 times the number of power strokes per revolution than a 4 cylinder and that the power strokes overlap... The second cylinder fires well before the first cylinder has finished its power stroke...

[Ben82]

Hi Simon,

Sorry for the confusion.....

I am assuming the instrument panel problem is fixed (it's had two starts in fairly quick succession -7C without issue), but hopefully that will be verified when I start it again later after it's had a chance to get cold in the garage

The issue I had the other week with the replacement battery happened (initially) with this one too and is down to the connector..

They didn't fix the battery connector, to be honest he was pointing out to me what was missing (by showing me it on the positive one) but couldn't really see it so must have been rather small. (it's to do with the part that clamps down the connector over the battery, so the cable is in good order... So am reluctant to replace the whole cable for just the clamp (which seemingly citroen only do it as a whole cable with the clamp, costing about £130!).

Might go out later and take a couple of close up pictures of both terminals to see if I can play spot the difference lol

EDIT: should also point out that there's quite a difference between starting with a bad battery and having a loose negative connection....
The bad battery gives repeated clicks (bit like starting a gas hob), and the bad connection: I can only really describe as the car giving out a "sigh", guess that's from the starter turning, and then giving up when it can't ground properly.

[Xantidote]

Worth feeling the battery terminals and clamps for warmth on the next few occasions, immediately after start up? An easy and popular rudimentary test if electrical supply/power is suspect

[CitroJim]

Went back out to the car, didn't start (just went "click click click" when trying to turn over)..... "Bad Battery" was their explanation, they came out with a jump start thing, worked fine.

Not necessarily Ben. A starter just going click is a very common problem on the V6 Xantia and XM and is caused by high resistance in the starter solenoid feed circuitry; it takes only a bit of voltage drop between the battery, ignition switch and solenoid to result in the all too familiar click rather than the lusty, fast spin of the V6 starter.

For the Xantia at least there is a very popular modification to install a 'helper' relay so the ignition switch only energises a relay that connects the starter solenoid as directly to the battery as is possible and therefore ensures very reliable starter motor operation.

If you feel this might be interesting i can supply some details of the Xantia modification.

[Ben82]

Went back out to the car, didn't start (just went "click click click" when trying to turn over)..... "Bad Battery" was their explanation, they came out with a jump start thing, worked fine.

Not necessarily Ben. A starter just going click is a very common problem on the V6 Xantia and XM and is caused by high resistance in the starter solenoid feed circuitry; it takes only a bit of voltage drop between the battery, ignition switch and solenoid to result in the all too familiar click rather than the lusty, fast spin of the V6 starter.

For the Xantia at least there is a very popular modification to install a 'helper' relay so the ignition switch only energises a relay that connects the starter solenoid as directly to the battery as is possible and therefore ensures very reliable starter motor operation.

If you feel this might be interesting i can supply some details of the Xantia modification.

Hi Jim,

That does sound very interesting, and worth me looking into whether it's possible at least.. (I'm hoping to have the C5 for a number of years, so it may out-live this battery too).

Thanks

Ben

[CitroJim]

Ben,

This is a the standard V6 Xantia starter circuit and this is the modified one with the 'helper' relay...

I'm not sure how similar the C5 wiring is but I'd not expect it to be radically different. The way it's done preserves the function of the start inhibit relay which on an automatic is absolutely vital from a safety point of view...

[Mandrake]

I can attest to the effectiveness of the starter relay mod, as I've done it on my V6.

Before doing it, starting was maybe a 1 in 4 chance... turn the key, a loud "click", but nothing else. On maybe the third or fourth attempt the starter would turn.

After the relay modification the starter turns every time first time even if the battery is a bit low because the car hasn't been started for a week.

In my measurements I found that the voltage getting to the starter solenoid before the modification was only around 8 volts which is not enough to engage the solenoid reliably. After the modification it's around 10 volts even while cranking under full load from the starter. The extra 2 volts makes all the difference and I can rest easy knowing the solenoid current is no longer burning up the ignition switch contacts any further...

[Ben82]

Got around to having a look today to see the bit that is missing from the terminal (this is the positive one, and have highlighted the part in yellow):

Guessing it's not something I'm going to easily find a replacement for?

As for the relay, I'm rather poor with wiring diagrams, but the equivalent (that I can find) diagram looks more complex:

[Ben82]

Hmmm, this morning, it caused another issue: went to start the car, "click click click" then it went completely dead, until I went to take the key out and it decided to do have party on the dash, every single light was on and both the mileometers reset to 0!

Gut reaction was almost to go back inside and see if there was someone who could take my daughter to her school, but instead I thought it's probably the connection on the negative terminal (I didn't really touch the negative terminal yesterday when examining them, but maybe the cover may have knocked it or so? I dunno), anyway gave the connector a wiggle, and tried it again, it gave out the uninterested sigh! Thought I was getting somewhere, so gave the connector another wiggle, the car then started telling me I had left the key in the ignition, so I guess I found the "sweet spot".... turned the key, and it started fine. Mileometers went back to where they were, and we were on our way. Clock/time etc had to be set again, so it seems like it doesn't make that good of a connection on the terminal.

Anyone got any ideas on repairing that part? don't really want to fork out for a completely new negative cable, just for the bit that connects to the battery.

[Ben82]

Found this, have asked them to provide a closer pic of the clamp, that cable is from a manual, and it seems like the auto has a different one... however I am really only after the missing part to hopefully attach to my clamp. For ~£15 delivered I guess it's worth a shot.

[Ben82]

Well received the cable today, I can actually see from this one that it's (relatively) a large part missing from the clamp, it's like a thin metal brace that holds the whole thing together, which would be why my lever falls off when you lift it up.
Good to know it's not something small that I managed to "lose"..
Job for the weekend I guess, can also use the time to mull over whether I take the brace off to put on mine, or whether I take the cable off of this one and just use the clamp.

[Ben82]

Had a look at it this evening and decided the missing brace was going to be easiest, this is the "part" for anyone interested:

Not sure how the old one would have gotten lost, aside from if someone somehow managed to snap it (how????!)... Anyway, tonight I decided to fit it rather than waiting for the weekend, no issues, waited a bit for the ECU etc to shut down, disconnected the negative and got to work cleaning the existing connector (I cleaned the "new" lever, so I could use that instead of trying to clean my one in the -4C it was out tonight).
Put it all back together and put some grease on the terminal, and went to start her, no issues at all this time, and gave her a quick test drive around (and to give the battery another chance to charge).

So I think this problematic chapter is finally over

[myglaren]

Hopefully all will be well now.

Only -4°? Is it summer there already

[Ben82]

Hopefully all will be well now.

Only -4°? Is it summer there already

Really wanting the snow to go now, but I'm guessing we'll have it for most of March too. Can't wait for the 31st March where I can put the alloys back on

[myglaren]

I remember it snowing on May 1st one year

Didn't last tong but still.

Fair bit south of you too (Borås).