Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

[GiveMeABreak]

Not from there - don't you need to go back to the Global Test, let it run, then on completion select one of the ECUs with a fault, then this will open up the sub menu and then you can READ and then ERASE the fault from there ( IIRC). Then repeat, as I don't think youa re in the right place to erase them and I don't recall you being able to erase these en masse.

[wurlycorner]

Ah yes, now I know what you mean - and yes I did try that.
I have several screen shots of trying to erase faults as I tried several times (I've only posted a couple pf the ones I took there). I know the ones I've posted there are correct for one of the attempts via the faults log, but I can't now recall which are the ones from when I tried to erase directly via the injection ECU. However I know that failed also.
I can try that again next time and will take fresh pics to show that...

[xantia_v6]

I would not trust the current measurements in the live data unless independently measured, as the current sensors are a likely cause of your fault.

[wurlycorner]

Fair enough point. but... I struggle to see why the current sensors would read correctly in one direction but faulty in the other?

Surely they're either a digital output (of what the ecu has calculated it should be putting out) or more likely (otherwise what's the point of it giving a reading cause that part should never fail ) a reading from a dc current transducer (coil around the output terminal) in which case they either work, or don't work - direction of current doesn't make any difference in that regard?

Or what am I missing?

Really do appreciate the suggestions people.

[wurlycorner]

Well a generally not very successful weekend trying to get the rack out (among other things) on this car.

It's a relatively simple job tbh (provided you have good access, which I do since I'm using my ramp) however I've been thwarted;

After forking out for a set of female Torx sockets (which I discovered go by sizing in "E" numbers rather than "T" ) I set to work.
Quickly realised though, that after the initial cracking off of the bolt, the nut was spinning
Assumed this was welds broken on the captive but, but on closer inspection...

Looked like a normal nut (not welded captive).

At this point I was just dumbfounded - what the hell were Citroen thinking of making it a non-captive nut? There's no way of getting a socket or spanner on the back of it. Left the car in disgrace and came home with my tail between my legs...

Service.citroen shows the cause of my pain (and reassures somewhat that they weren't completely 'nuts' when designing the car);

So this what the top nut should actually look like;


So it is meant to be captive, but held there by a crappy plastic surround.
That's completely MIA on mine, but tbh i also think even if it was there, it would never have stood up to the force needed to free these bolts off now that they've rusted. FWIW, this is the other (drivers) side, which looks much worse.




I've been reviewing the pics tonight and trying to suss out my next move for getting the old bolts out.

Cutting the head off the bolt from below would get the sub-frame off, but I think would leave a stud stuck inside the chassis that's too long to remove via the hole in the side, so I think the way to go is to try and use an air saw through the chassis hole to chop the top off the stud, level with the top of the nut and then hope I can get a box spanner in and over it (although the flats on the drivers side nut don't look great, so I'm a bit worried about it rounding off).
If the air saw doesn't work (not sure if there is space) I could try just drilling through the bolt above the nut to chop it off instead.

Any other ideas/relevant experience???

(Obviously once they're out, replacing with brand new bolts and nuts is the only way to go!)

[Hell Razor5543]

I would, if possible, start liberally applying Plus Gas to the offending area. I would also TIGHTEN the bolts slightly (as this can help break any rust free). After about a week of regular applications you may find that you can undo the bolts more easily.

If you have a stout flathead screwdriver it may serve well as a wedge, so that as you start to undo the bolt the nut jams on the screwdriver and stops spinning.

[GiveMeABreak]

Iain says the nut is spinning already James.

[Hell Razor5543]

I just noticed, hence my adding the screwdriver as a possible wedge to stop the nut turning any further.

I would also suggest that, once you HAVE got the nuts and bolts out, when you replace them smother them liberally in grease (something waterproof and thick) to protect them and prevent rust forming on them in the future.

[wurlycorner]

Thanks James, I did explore the screwdriver wedge trick today - I have a set of square shank screwdrivers that would be ideal, but the spacing inside the chassis section doesn't work and the back 'corner' of the chassis section isn't a corner, it's rounded off (so there's nothing for the other end of the screwdriver to lodge against, it was just going to keep slipping out).

The bolts have been pretty well liberally soaked in WD40 (yes plug gas is better but I don't have any).

I didn't really say, that I have to cut the top of the bolt down because it extends up inside the chassis section so much at the moment, that there is no way at all of being able to get a box spanner up and over the top, through the chassis hole.

[ekjdm14]

How about if you were to chop the bolt heads off as mentioned, and then with the subframe out of the way cut the shank off the bolt close to the chassis & withdraw the nut/remaining section from within the hole?

What a royal pain though, and with the plastic part completely missing both sides I wonder if someone has been here before?

[bobins]

That's exactly how it's attached on the C5 X7. I had to undo mine to replace my rack. I quickly removed what was left of the plastic captive bits as they fell apart without too much persuasion. Can't remember how I gripped the nuts to remove the bolts, but it couldn't have been too involved as I got them out. Might have used Mole grips or a slimline ring spanner ?

[xantia_v6]

Did you actually determine that the rack needs to come out?

[Paul-R]

If you have a MIG welder could you pop a few tack welds on the nut? Caveats about disconnecting battery, alternator, etc.

[RichardW]

That's what the guy that did the clutch on our Picasso had to do - I think MIG would struggle, IIRC he got his mate in who is a dab hand with a stick welder. It's a really, really rubbish bit of design for future maintenance!

[wurlycorner]

Did you actually determine that the rack needs to come out?

Yes - regardless of the light right/heavy left, I also mentioned that the casting is cracked right through. Not connected to the fault I'm sure (and I can't see that it causes any issues in reality) but having seen said crack, I can't ignore it.

Pic below FYI, showing the crack;

(that's from one side, but it's visible on the other side of the rack also)

EDIT:
Found a pic from the other side also.

Basically that means that one of the two fixing lugs is completely detached and it's the fact that the rack is sandwiched, that keeps it suitably together.