New tyres or Part worn?

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 20 Jan 2011, 19:08

I usually stick to Michelin now, I find their grip is impressive and they provide a nice, quiet ride with a soft sidewall. I like to corner and find the Michelins provide me with good grip levels.

Im trying to get all our cars onto Michelins slowly but surely, most of them do have them now.

The Xm has Vredestein Sportrac3s on the rear, ive had them on the front and they are pretty good. Its got some new Michelin Energysavers on the front now, which I find a little better for wet grip and ride too.

My C5 has its original Michelin Pilots still, which are superb, great ride, handing and grip. Ive now swapped the tyres from my 04 VTR to our estate, as i dont fancy giving £500 worth of new Michelins away with it when i sell it on. So the 05 estate has Michelin primacy HPs, again very good tyres, a bit more bulbous than the older Primacy - despite them being in the same size, but they drive similarly and wear very well. My 04 C5 has Goodyears on the front now which are very good for grip, but not quite as comfortable as the Michies.

The C1 has tiny Michelin EnergySaver E3Bs, they seem to keep it on the road pretty well and were fantastic in the snow, though thats because they are slightly thinner than a bicycle tyre!

I put a set of Goodyears on the SX C5, they are ok, but i wish i had stuck with Michelins, as it gripped better and had a better ride with its previous energys.

I like Michelins, they are expensive but as they are generally well made and provide good grip levels with good ride comfort and noise levels plus they wear better than most, they are often worth going for. You can see why they are a perfect fit on Citroens.

Though the cost can sometimes be prohibitive, at £140 a tyre for the C5 they are one of the most expensive tyres available. Ive got a small stock of brand new ones ready for one when they are needed, which i got very cheaply, so im pretty pleased with those.

Uniroyals are great tyres, i thought about those for the C5 as they are cheaper but are fantastic, especially in the wet. But i thought id stick to what it should have fitted.

If i didnt have Michelins id have either Uniroyals or possibly Contis.

I generally put money aside when i know im going to need tyres, as they are rarely an unexpected purchase. And when you think they should last 15-20K miles on the front and more on the rear, the extra outlay over budgets isnt much over such a mileage.

I couldn't really care less about tyre wear or comfort, not compared to wet grip, which is what i base tyres on, as thats why you most need a tyre.

I did have Toyo T1-Rs on my C5 before, they were extremely grippy in the dry and the wet, they even impressed in the snow, surprising for a performance tyre. Id have bought them again but thought id get the Michelins. They did only last 11K miles on the front, my driving style to blame, but they were considerably cheaper.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 20 Jan 2011, 19:37

Citroenmad wrote:...I generally favour softer sidewall tyres and usually run the pressures at a few PSI lower on the front. Only 3psi lower than standard with the 16" wheel'd C5s.

Really, what you are effectively saying is you prefer an underinflated Michelin as your tyre of choice.

A healthy, fully inflated tyre (to sidewall spec) on a recommended rim width may feel less progressive at low speed, high side load breakaway but will consistently hang on better in truly marginal paved road situations. It's quite easily demonstrated.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 20 Jan 2011, 19:45

addo wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:...I generally favour softer sidewall tyres and usually run the pressures at a few PSI lower on the front. Only 3psi lower than standard with the 16" wheel'd C5s.
Really, what you are effectively saying is you prefer an underinflated Michelin as your tyre of choice.

A healthy, fully inflated tyre (to sidewall spec) on a recommended rim width may feel less progressive at low speed, high side load breakaway but will consistently hang on better in truly marginal paved road situations. It's quite easily demonstrated.

Not underinflated as its within spec for that model. I found 36 felt too much in my previous C5, reducing it by 3 took the edge of the ride a bit but didnt change handling. Different tyres prefer different pressures generally, or so i find anyway.

Running Goodyears at the correct psi of 36 wore the middle of the tread, as if it was over inflated. So I reduced it slightly to even the wear. My Toyos also wore on in the centre initially before i reduced them to 33, which gave a much more even wear pattern.

Though this C5 I have at 36, it feels better than the other one with the same pressure, though it is heavier.

Pressure on the sidewall is maximum tyre pressures, not the pressure a tyre should be run at.

I always keep a close check on pressures so they are never under inflated. Im quite paranoid about tyre pressures!

I check them once a week, along with wear and sidewall condition.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 21 Jan 2011, 03:35

Thermal gradient is the best way to assess even contact patches.

You should have either a consistent temperature across the tread width, or a (deliberate) gradation from one side to the other - something only found on heavily cambered vehicles lightly driven.

Jeff · Unread post by **Jeff** » 21 Jan 2011, 17:30

Are Enduro tyres any good?

Talking to a tyre fitter today and he said as budget tyres go, they would be a reasonable tyre for a C5 2.0 HDI. (size 195/65/15)

He also mentioned Avons.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 21 Jan 2011, 20:43

Ive heard of Enduros but not used them, they do appear very budget, though i cant comment on grip.

Avons are generally good tyres.

birksy · Unread post by **birksy** » 21 Jan 2011, 20:52

Na, Chinese.

Don't bother.

Here's one review...

Awful. If you want to die buy them, but since those 4 bits of rubber are the only things keeping you on the road its a false economy, buy the best you can....

and here's another..

"...runaway!!!!!"

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 21 Jan 2011, 21:26

Anything that sounds a bit iffy, such as Runway (Runaway), Triangle (tyres are round?), Linglong etc, are worth leaving very well alone. Im sure the tyres on the wheelie bin would off more grip!

One car we used to have had ChengChangs or something, what on earth! I can't begin to explain how awful a tyre they were, they lasted a few days after getting the car and they were off.

Seriously, I wouldn't touch them, anything that sounds cheap and nasty probably is, saving a few pennies is not important enough to worth risking a crash, or worse.

Even if you never have grip problems with any tyre, in an emergency situation when grip is really needed, the cheap tyres will be left wanting, and the car left needing new parts of a scrap yard.

Tyres are an investment really.

SwissSPEC · Unread post by **SwissSPEC** » 21 Jan 2011, 22:10

Totally agree, its one of the most important safety features of a car, yet everyone wants to buy tyres for £20 each to save a few quid, deathtraps imho.

I'm hoping that legislation will mean minimum standards of performance for tyres in the future - & when i mean minimum, they are high standards, that way any tyre that doesnt pass, can't be sold.

I'd agree with the sentiments of buying used branded tyres over brand new ditchfinders. The downside with used tyres is that they seem to be totally unregulated, so infact could be more dangerous because of defects/damage that most of us wouldnt spot.

Thats why i buy non premium brands, but decent makes which are realistically priced, but the performance in the dry & wet (especially wet) is as equal or better than the much higher priced premum brands.

Its a difficult subject as everyone seems to have positive or negative experiences with the same tyres, so who do you believe???

birksy · Unread post by **birksy** » 22 Jan 2011, 00:01

The only thing I could add is to one, do research and don't buy on a whim. (I've made that mistake with Barauvius (conti) on a Mondeo. They were ok but a bit slidey.)

b) perhaps try and drive so you don't need the tyres to perform at their ultimate?

We've got Continental & Michelin on the A4.

Kumho (as mentioned before) on the C5.

The A4 is worth more (and is much heavier) so the tyre price can be justified.

The C5 being newer, but worth less, I find difficult to justify putting premium tyres on.

I'd struggle to name anymore than the obvious 5 Michelin, Goodyear, Pirelli, Bridgestone & Continental. Oh, ok 6 Dunlop but not too sure if its just a brand rather than a full on tyre company.

I think reviews are helpful but it maybe easy for reps to put a few good reviews of their own products on the web.

'Which' or autoexpress may be helpful but individual car forums are good for advice but then driving styles may affect opinion.

I'm happy with my tyres on the C5. They're grippy enough in the dry, need to see how they are in the wet but I cant imagine they're going to be a problem like Chinese tyres.

Maybe in ten years the best tyres will come from China but for now leave it.

THELABMAN · Unread post by **THELABMAN** » 22 Jan 2011, 01:58

I'd Trangle branded tyres on the rear of my C5 HDI and it spun out the back three times on damp not even wet roads going around roundabouts. I changed them over to Barum Bravuris 2 from National Tyres at £100 the pair about the end of November and they are amazing, not a problem during all that bad weather.

I've got Maxxis MA-P1's on the front and for a budget tyre have been quite impressed by there handling in the dry, wet and even that bad snow. Although they aren't wearing to well I'm still expecting to get more than 14,000 miles out of them. Thye've done about 11,500 now and have about 3.5mm of tread left.

Talking of pressures they pressures on the sticker inside the door of my car it states 2.3 bar front and rear for 195/65/15 so where are some of you getting the information it's 33psi front and 30psi rear as 2.3 bar is about 33.5psi

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 22 Jan 2011, 08:12

Car value and the price of tyres has little to do with it really, as even if you have a set of new Michelin tyres fitted to a more expensive car its not going to be worth any more than it is when you come to sell than if it had worn cheapies. Might be easier to sell and make it looks likes it been better looked after though.

In France you often see old cars which sould be virtually worthless fitted with a new set of Michelin tyres. No matter if you have a £50 car or a £50K car, you still need the same amount of grip.

Yes, I agree though, some mid range tyres offer equal or more grip than premium brands.

I always research into the tyres before buying, yes you might get the odd few people who didnt like them, though you dont know if they check pressures etc often, what car it was or how the cars gemoetry is. On the whole if the tests read good then it will be a good tyres.

You hear a lot of conflicting reports about Pirellis, mainly the P6000 and P7, some people love them, some people think they are rubbish.

Sites like tyretest etc for good reviews on tyres are handy. Never believe the sales patter on tyre websites, as obviously they think theirs are the best. Independant tyre tests from autoexpress etc are great, as they are tested on the same typre of car by the same drivers.

birksy · Unread post by **birksy** » 22 Jan 2011, 11:59

Citroenmad wrote:Car value and the price of tyres has little to do with it really.

Conversely I think the car value and the tyre price is everything to do with it.

Its human thinking Vs logic.

Logically the better the tyre on any car the better the stopping distance and cornering, grip etc.

However, being humans, on a budget too, I think we tend to look at things in a wider context to reflect price etc.

You'd have to be a real skinflint to put cheapies on a new or newish car.

As someone pointed out earlier dealers are often the culprits sticking cheap tyres on to get a car thru an MOT.

For me its easier to justify the cost of premium tyres for the Audi A4 than the C5 just because one is worth more than the other.

For the C5 it was more of a balancing act of performance vs cost. All round Kumhos have cost £320all together.

I'd be looking at almost that per axle for the premium brands.

I wholeheartedly agree that you should get the best you can. As for the French with their Michelins, when I lived in Stoke (born & bred) there was a Michelin factory.... its gone now. Everyone had Michelins

Everyone knew someone who could get cheap tyres...

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 23 Jan 2011, 10:50

Yes, i agree.

However, if your car is worth £50 or £50K, you still require grip and you still would like to stick to the road. Your really buying safety, not just tyres.

Though Kumhos are generally excellent tyres, a lot of the mid range tyres are as good or better than some of the premium tyres. However some are not. I just dont see the point in fitting budgets, in the long run they work out very little difference in money, as over 15-20K miles its not even pence per mile driven difference. They just lack grip, almost to the point id call some cheap brands dangerous.

And remoulds! How are those still sold in the UK, what a load of rubbish. Thankfully most people have more sense than to fit them. I had the misfortune of driving an XM with remoulds, ive never driven anything as unstable as that, not to mention the vibrations sent through the whole car, as if the drift shafts were done.

Tyres make a massive difference to the car, its safety and grip.

Ive used a lot of mid range tyres in the past, Kumho, Toyos etc, i found them all to be very good. Id like to try Uniroyals next, as they get excellent reviews.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 23 Jan 2011, 11:07

My car came with Uniroyal 185.65.15s on the rear and spare. Hard as, and eventually one blew out in spectacular fashion while the princess was driving at 100km/h.

I'm not one to skimp on tyres, and wouldn't sell a car with tyres worn to death - it might be the next vehicle coming at you, out of control...