Automatic Lights and Wipers

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 26 Mar 2011, 10:10

myglaren wrote:
JamesQB wrote:
myglaren wrote:...and I like my lights on most if not all the time.
Ah, so you're on of 'those'.

Dazzling the rest of us even on bright days when we don't need 55W of focussed light beamed directly into our eyeballs.
'Fraid so. I approved of it when Volvo & Saab introduced it in Sweden in the 70's and have hung on to it ever since. Bodged the wiring on most of my other cars so the dipped beams were always on. Drove a 265 for quite a while too

OK for you but dangerous for motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians around you.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Mar 2011, 10:29

I fail to see how driving with headlights on during the day is dangerous for anyone

Headlamp deams are hardly noticeable in daylight, they will only be dangerous if you look directly into the headlight. Headlights are not bright enough to cause damage to eyes during daylight.

You mention motorcycles, is it not law for motorcylces to be ridden with headlights on?

I can't imagine Volvo approving daylight headlights if they caused a safety issue, no one is more safety conscious

Unread post by **myglaren** » 26 Mar 2011, 11:50

One difference with the Volvo and SAAB solution is that they were fitted with dedicated daylight driving lamps that were frosted - i.e. had no beam and were therefore incapable of dazzling anyone under any conditions.

I find the DS3 and Audi LED lamps very distracting - far too bright.

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 26 Mar 2011, 13:13

I think part of the trouble with headlights dazzling is down to people with duff eyes like me, even at night, and some of the newer cars with blindingly bright headlights, as well as any car with a misaligned lamp. I also agree that some of the LED ones are too much.

Out of interest, to know how I see oncoming headlights at night, go to this link http://www.opticalexpress.co.uk/laser-e ... front.html and about halfway down the page, under the heading 'High Order Aberrations' you'll see 3 different versions of the same scene of a road at night with oncoming cars.

I see things as per the top-left image, labelled 'Glare'. And that's no exaggeration, it really is that bad. I do accept that's an issue with my eyes though, and not the fault of headlights per se.

It'd be interesting for others to look at the images in that link, and say how they see things at night, going by the picture labels 'Glare', 'Halos', 'Normal'.

Xac: I'm sorry, I didn't make it very clear in my post. I haven't yet had the eye surgery, only a consultation, and was told that the trouble with my night driving was due to the reasons given in the webpage link above, and that the more expensive, advanced laser surgery might not only correct my myopia and astigmatism, but also reduce the problem I have with night-driving glare, by so perfectly smoothing out the surface of my eyeball.

As yet, I haven't gone ahead with treatment because I'm a worrier and possible side-effects really concern me since vision is so important. It's good to hear that your treatment did improve your night driving vision. Would you be able to tell me from the link above, how you used to see oncoming vehicles before the surgery, and how it is now?

dnsey · Unread post by **dnsey** » 26 Mar 2011, 14:04

JamesQB wrote:I see things as per the top-left image, labelled 'Glare'. And that's no exaggeration, it really is that bad. I do accept that's an issue with my eyes though, and not the fault of headlights per se.

Me too - and considerably worse where there's no ambient lighting. I have on occasions had to stop, as the glare has completely flooded my vision, so that I have no idea what's ahead, apart from memory.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 26 Mar 2011, 14:55

JamesQB wrote: Xac: I'm sorry, I didn't make it very clear in my post. I haven't yet had the eye surgery, only a consultation, and was told that the trouble with my night driving was due to the reasons given in the webpage link above, and that the more expensive, advanced laser surgery might not only correct my myopia and astigmatism, but also reduce the problem I have with night-driving glare, by so perfectly smoothing out the surface of my eyeball.

As yet, I haven't gone ahead with treatment because I'm a worrier and possible side-effects really concern me since vision is so important. It's good to hear that your treatment did improve your night driving vision. Would you be able to tell me from the link above, how you used to see oncoming vehicles before the surgery, and how it is now?

Trying to remember back to before I had it done about 10 years ago.
If memory serves it was halo, mostly due to the build up of day time gunk on my glasses, cleaning them made things normal.
I would never have driven without glasses or contact lenses, my prescription was -2.75 with an astigmatism in my left eye. I hated not being able to see clearly.
I had epi-lasek done, where they numb the eye, pour alcohol onto it and slide the epithelum (top layer of cells) aside, then reshape the front of the cornea and slide the epithelum back into place.
If you're going to have that done, take the sleeping pill they give you (if they do) when you get home and go to bed. Do not try to open your eyes, let them gum up and fill with tears to protect the healing corneas. I've heard from people who've had it done more recently that they were given bandage contacts which made things better. The description of it being discomfort is actually accurate although not very descriptive. It's not pain, but it's a heat, like if you have a high fever and your eyes feel like they're burning.
By the second day I could see although hazy, and by the 3rd day I could drive.
I still have a slight astigmatism but I hardly notice it, whereas before when I wore contact lenses which couldn't compensate for it, it really reduced the visibility with my left eye.
Dad had lasik (and because he's stupid he went via Bupa rather than a specialist so it cost him £2K), where they slice the cornea, fold it back, reshape the inside and fold the flap back into place. Dad could see better almost immediately, although his prescription changed continually over the next month or so. Now he has 2 pairs of glasses for reading, one for the computer and one for books/newspapers, but doesn't need glasses when driving.

Of course things have changed a lot in the past 10 years, the wavefront technology for starters. Danielle is looking into getting her eyes done and her mum's.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:09

dnsey wrote:
Code: Select all
I see things as per the top-left image, labelled 'Glare'. And that's no exaggeration, it really is that bad. I do accept that's an issue with my eyes though, and not the fault of headlights per se. [/quote]
Me too - and considerably worse where there's no ambient lighting. I have on occasions had to stop, as the glare has completely flooded my vision, so that I have no idea what's ahead, apart from memory.

I would say the "glare" photo is closest to my experience but not as bad as that picture shows. It's particularly nasty when there's no streetlighting - pitch black otherwise.

But last night, I accidentally found a solution!

I had to turn the interior lights on - something I have always regarded as detrimental to night-time driving. The effect was amazing and it did not seem to reduce my visibility at all, in fact it felt enhanced when faced with oncoming dazzlers.

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 26 Mar 2011, 17:17

Citroenmad wrote:I fail to see how driving with headlights on during the day is dangerous for anyone

Because by making yourself stand out you make other road users blend into the background.

Motorbikes have been using dipped beam during the day to increase their visibility, if cars follow suit then they lose that advantage.

Pedestrians and cyclists are already at a disadvantage and they need to be seen much more than motorists do.

These guys can probably explain it better than I.

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 26 Mar 2011, 21:20

I think manufacturers have moved away from the safety element of Daytime Running Lights. I highly doubt that Audi or Citroen had safety in mind when fitting these glitzy LEDs. Don't get me wrong, I think they look fantastic on the DS3, but there are so obviously an attention seeking touch, with no regards to safety in mind whatsoever. Plus, I've seen a few C4 Picassos with them fitted - Citroen, it'll take more than that to get yummy mummies out of their Audi Q7s, it looks ridiculous.

The Volvo 440 I have at the minute has DRL that, as said before, don't emit any beam on to the road whatsoever, but merely make the car more noticeable on dull days. There's a bit of a flaw in this though. The dash is always lit, so I've driven off a few times at night wondering why the lights aren't shining on the road. So... not exactly a safety feature.

I've noticed that new VW Golfs and Renault Méganes don't have glitzy LEDs, but simple low output halogen bulbs that shine during the day and are backed up by the dipped beam at night. I reckon this is the best solution if DRL become obligatory as they make the car more noticeable without being attention seeking.

ALSO, what the hell is up with the new German trend of a front foglight coming on to accompany an indicator??? It's absolutely ridiculous and makes the car look like it's got one working front foglight, being incorrectly used. It seems to be the Germans starting these ridiclous lighting trends.

Automatic Headlights are the answer to it all I reckon. But we're well past that stage... what next? Headlights that shine a different colour to reflect the driver's mood???

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:53

R9UKE wrote:ALSO, what the hell is up with the new German trend of a front foglight coming on to accompany an indicator???

Never heard of or seen this. Is the idea to make it even more obvious to oncoming traffic, traffic waiting to pull out, and when you're on a roundabout, that you indeed to turn? If so, then why not just dispense with extra lights ad infinitum and have a 200W xenon in the indicators or a flashing neon saying 'Turning Right/Left' mounted on the roof?

Or stop trying to make indicators look so funky and not-like-indicators-at-all (and definitely NOT orange, perish the thought) that they're barely visible when on, which almost caused me to run into a car at a mini-roundabout because I couldn't see he was indicating till he started passing across my direction of travel, at which point the angle was about right to see a tiny flicker of orange from what was supposed to be an indicator.

I remember when cars had bright clear bulbs mounted inside an orange plastic lens that you could see a mile away when flashing.

Then the stupid orange-coated bulbs appeared which stay orange for a short while until the heat has baked the enamel off and you have white indicators.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 27 Mar 2011, 09:51

R9UKE wrote:ALSO, what the hell is up with the new German trend of a front foglight coming on to accompany an indicator??? It's absolutely ridiculous and makes the car look like it's got one working front foglight, being incorrectly used. It seems to be the Germans starting these ridiclous lighting trends.

It's as an alternative to headlights turning to light up where you are going.
So you're turning left, the left fog light comes on supposedly to light up the road to the left.

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 27 Mar 2011, 11:25

Xac wrote: It's as an alternative to headlights turning to light up where you are going.
So you're turning left, the left fog light comes on supposedly to light up the road to the left.

Well then surely they should be activated at a certain speed. The foglight lights up as soon as the indicator has been turned on, so they shine while you're sitting at the traffic lights (on a road already illuminated by street lights) waiting to turn.

They should be set to be activated once the car reaches about 40 MPH, as I imagine they could be quite effective on winding country roads, but around town there is absolutely no need, and it looks ridiculous.

Surely Citroen's lights didn't (and don't) swivel when an indicator is turned on!?

Can't believe I ended up part of this rant on headlights.... need to let it out though!

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 27 Mar 2011, 11:35

They light up (well merc's did when I worked for them) when the wheel is turned and the indicator is on.
Yes, Citroen's headlights (main beam if I remember correctly) would swivel with the steering wheel turning.

Turning off a road at over 40mph would be dangerous at day or night!
They're a gimick, just like the blind spot flasher where a light flashes at the base of the wing mirror to warn you there's something in your blind spot. Imagine someone getting used to that rather than actually looking over their shoulder and then one day the bulb fails and bang!

I still haven't thought of a legitimate reason why you would need front fog lights on but not rear ones...