Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

[Gibbo2286]

The Cowley was the poor man's Oxford Neil pared down to price a bit like Ford's 'Popular'
There's one here in the village in a local garage with a few other ''classics.

[Mandrake]

Well done buyer and seller. Must be a great relief Simon. Don't think I have shed any tears about former cars since my Dad got rid of our first ever car...a Ford Anglia in the 1960's. He replaced it with a 1955 is Morris Cowley, a hideous black very old-fashioned looking thing compared to the Anglia

I've owned and sold several other cars in the past (that don't feature on my crossed out list in my signature) and haven't shed a tear for them really including a 1984 Daihatsu Charade Turbo and a 1988 Honda Accord - both good cars in their own right but "just cars" and I let go of them without any regret when the time came. (Both also due to rust!)

The Xantia is a bit more special though thanks to the combination of Hydractive 2 and the V6 engine which make it a lovely ride but with a decent amount of punch. The Hydractive 2 Xantia was the sweet spot for the ride / handling balance of Citroen's in my opinion.

There there older Citroen that rode better than a Xantia (DS, CX, maybe the GS although that could be a little crashy at the front) but they did not handle or corner anywhere near as well, and there are newer Citroen's like the C5 that probably handle well but just don't ride nearly as well as the Xantia. (I've been in two C5's and a C6 and none ride like a well sorted Hydractive 2 Xantia)

I will definitely miss Hydractive 2 - there is nothing like it today and I will just have to resign myself to a bumpy ride in future - I'm well used to it now after nearly 50k miles in a Leaf! (And a Leaf is considered by many to be a relatively soft riding car by modern standards!)

[NewcastleFalcon]

We are neck and neck with the Leaf Simon ours is about to hit 80,000 miles in total, and 51,500 in our ownership, after 4¾ years. Still have 11 bars, and with the gentle charging regime of the granny charger possibly helping, and me being a 50 K driver now, I can get more miles out of it than when I first got it. Currently over the last 2000 miles getting 4.7 m/kWh which is pretty good.

Neil

[Mandrake]

We are neck and neck with the Leaf Simon ours is about to hit 80,000 miles in total, and 51,500 in our ownership, after 4¾ years. Still have 11 bars, and with the gentle charging regime of the granny charger possibly helping, and me being a 50 K driver now, I can get more miles out of it than when I first got it. Currently over the last 2000 miles getting 4.7 m/kWh which is pretty good.

Neil

Ours is at 72k miles at the moment and gaining around 12k per year.

Despite treating the battery nicely (charging to 80% wherever possible) and very rarely ever rapid charging, mine is down to 10 bars and 77% SoH now.

All the cells are very even with no outliers so there are no individual cells that are faulty, it's just degradation of all of them.

The 30kW model was always reputed to have worse battery degradation rates than the Gen 2 (2013-2017) 24kWh models due to a change in battery chemistry - it looks like this is being proven correct!

I still say a Leaf is a generally good and reliable car but it is let down a bit by the battery degradation rate and lack of battery cooling system.

[Mandrake]

Well - I've been struggling away all day on the rear brakes on the Leaf and have hit an insurmountable problem - I cannot get the new disc to go back on over new shoes. There just isn't any clearance.

I've replaced the handbrake cables (which were indeed completely seized) and they move freely now, however there is no clearance to slide the disc over the shoes. The adjuster at the bottom is fully wound in, the shoes are pulled tight around the pivot at the top, but no go.

In desperation I've even tried filing away about a millimetre of material on the bottom faces of the shoe where the adjuster presses into but no joy. The dimensions of the new shoe plates is ever so slightly different to the originals and I think I'm looking at tolerance errors here...

In desperation I tried refitting the original shoes - and they will go in and do work after a fashion, however this gives the same problem the handbrake had before the cables seized - it only grips tightly turning forwards and will rotate backwards. This is because there is a huge wear discrepancy between the two shoes with one about half the thickness of the other.

I'm probably going to be forced to put the old shoes back in because I must have a car on Monday but I've been working on this for 7 hours now and it's very disappointing to have new discs, shoes, pads and cables only to find the discs and shoes won't go together...

Of course I have no spare car now either...

[NewcastleFalcon]

Dont think I have got much to help Simon, other than carefully assemble again with a fresh mind.

Stating the obvious, If the Disk/drum combo is the right size, and the shoes themselves are the right size then the disk drum should slip over the shoes when the adjuster is clicked back to smallest "width".

The shoes and their combination of springs the adjuster and the "bit of metal" between the shoes at the top may be not quite right. The foot/ hbrake should be off...again a quite useless statement of the obvious.

I would maybe have a view of this video again, if for some reason you have been supplied with the wrong sized shoes/wrong sized disc/drum then this wont help. You mentioned you had 17" wheels and Tenka Spec and its a 30 kWh battery. Maybe there was a change in spec of the disc/drum shoes compared to mine.

Apart from the cables from Cleeveley my shoes and disks came from bog standard ECP I think (they did looking back on the thread probably "Eicher" brand). The adjuster is most likely the Achiles heel of your problems...can you put it in the wrong way round? does it foul on the lower spring if you do. Could the upper metal piece be mounted the wrong way? Hope you get it sorted when you look at it again in a fresher state.

[Armidillo]

Simon have you thought of trying one new shoe paired with the better of the old shoes?

[Mandrake]

Dont think I have got much to help Simon, other than carefully assemble again with a fresh mind.

Yeah, did that about five times, unfortunately it just doesn't fit and it's not even close.

Stating the obvious, If the Disk/drum combo is the right size, and the shoes themselves are the right size then the disk drum should slip over the shoes when the adjuster is clicked back to smallest "width".

The shoes and their combination of springs the adjuster and the "bit of metal" between the shoes at the top may be not quite right. The foot/ hbrake should be off...again a quite useless statement of the obvious.

Yes the handbrake was off - this system has a return spring in the bottom of the hub that forces the handbrake lever arm into the relaxed position when there is no tension on the handbrake cable. The "bit of metal" between the shoes at the top is a round stud around 10mm in diameter and the shoes are fully pressed against it with spring tension but the top end of the shoes will still not fit inside the disc.

I would maybe have a view of this video again, if for some reason you have been supplied with the wrong sized shoes/wrong sized disc/drum then this wont help. You mentioned you had 17" wheels and Tenka Spec and its a 30 kWh battery. Maybe there was a change in spec of the disc/drum shoes compared to mine.

Yes that was the video I was following while doing the job. I don't think there are any other differences in rear Leaf brakes with wheel spec, and I gave Cleverly the license plate for the car when ordering anyway. I think there may be a difference between models that use the ratchet pedal vs the motor driven ebrake, but that is the only variation.

Apart from the cables from Cleeveley my shoes and disks came from bog standard ECP I think (they did looking back on the thread probably "Eicher" brand).

These ones are Triscan - which is not a brand I have heard of before.

The adjuster is most likely the Achiles heel of your problems...can you put it in the wrong way round? does it foul on the lower spring if you do.

Definitely the right way around.

Could the upper metal piece be mounted the wrong way? Hope you get it sorted when you look at it again in a fresher state.

If you mean the plate with the slots - it's not possible to fit that the wrong way around, also I took pictures before disassembling the first time. (That video also shows in detail how things should be assembled)

Simon have you thought of trying one new shoe paired with the better of the old shoes?

Too much difference in thickness between even the better of the old shoes and the new shoes - if there is too much imbalance in the thickness of the shoes on the same hub it will lock first in one direction before the other, and there isn't enough travel in the handbrake mechanism to fully lock up the other direction - that's the issue the handbrake had for a long time where it didn't actually lock up in reverse.

By swapping shoes around to get two thick and two thin in pairs I've been able to overcome that. It's certainly not ideal but I'm just banging my head against a wall with the new shoes and need the car to be working again.

I've got about 4 hours of "not raining" today to try to finish this job and also investigate a rattle at the front so I better get moving!

[Armidillo]

...

By swapping shoes around to get two thick and two thin in pairs I've been able to overcome that. It's certainly not ideal but I'm just banging my head against a wall with the new shoes and need the car to be working again.

I've got about 4 hours of "not raining" today to try to finish this job and also investigate a rattle at the front so I better get moving!

That definitely is "DIY Car Maintenance with function over finesse!!" - worth an entry in that thread I reckon!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Measurements from parts websites tend to be as per this.

If your new disc is 292mm it should have a Inner Drum diameter of 172mm. If that is the case then the disc is the right size.

The shoe specs all mention they are for inner drum diameter of 172mm and are 32mm wide.

Neil

[Mandrake]

Hi Neil,

Where did you find the inner drum dimension of 172mm ?

In conversation with Cleverly at the moment and it appears there are two versions of the discs (Japanese built vs UK built) and shoes that differ by 2mm diameter!

[Gibbo2286]

Missed this conversation but I think trying the shoes in the drum while they're off would tell you if they're a match, too big and they'll touch only at the ends too small only in the middle.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Hi Neil,

Where did you find the inner drum dimension of 172mm ?

In conversation with Cleverly at the moment and it appears there are two versions of the discs (Japanese built vs UK built) and shoes that differ by 2mm diameter!

All the shoe sets from parts in motion mention the 172mm, all the disks are 292mm, put your Reg in from a previous post you made, same for mine, and same if you put the new shape Leaf in.

https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/car-par ... es#content

Screen print

Click to enlarge

Neil

[Mandrake]

Missed this conversation but I think trying the shoes in the drum while they're off would tell you if they're a match, too big and they'll touch only at the ends too small only in the middle.

Good idea, I wish I'd tried that.

Unfortunately I was in a hurry to beat the rain and get the car on the road again.

I ended up installing the cables, disc/drum, pads but re-fitted the original shoes for now.

As soon as I get some fine weather I'll pull the disc back off quickly and try sitting the new shoes (which are sitting in a box) in the disc to see!

Also I didn't think to try the old discs over the new shoes - I can check that match without even touching the car as I thankfully haven't binned the old discs yet.

If there is a mismatch it should be by 2mm and the disc should not have 2mm of wear...

[NewcastleFalcon]

I've corrected my last post for some reason I put 192mm as the disk size it is 292mm. The inner drum is 172mm diameter,

Neil