C5 X7 HDi V6 aux belt vibration - Alternator Change

[wurlycorner]

One other thing to note at this point in time (relevant to this thread) I started up and moved the car around ready for this job, with the aux belt already removed (everything else still in place). So none of the ancillaries were running - alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor. I reckon I had it running for about 10-15 minutes like that and probably drove it about 200meters or so. Not a peek from the car - no engine fault light light, no error message, no battery charge light indicated. Most surprising.

[the-termin8r]

That's a weird one, at the least you'd expect it to have a panic attack over the battery not charging, especially as you get the light on every ignition.

[wurlycorner]

Yep. I don't know if it's because the battery was freshly fully charged (outside the car) and so it just didn't reach the point where the car ECU's wanted to take charge from the alternator yet, so it didn't 'notice' the alternator had no output (assumed the alternator was in freewheel because it wasn't demanding otherwise???)? But it did surprise me.

[MattBLancs]

You pose a good question there with respect to modern "smart" alternators! My understanding of, err, "dim" alternators was open circuit on the "exciter" voltage circuit was what triggered the charging light to illuminate.

Maybe you are correct and on a Smart unit, it doesn't shove any voltage that route if not needing any. Quite surprised to be honest! Very interesting,

[wurlycorner]

(Either that or there is yet another fault hiding on my damned car )

[wurlycorner]

Ref the cooling pipework - someone has been here before. Looks like a top quality rubber sleeve and chemical metal repair
However, it’s holding, so I’ll probably clean it up, silver hammerite over the metal parts and then Dinitrol underseal over the top of that, to try and keep it from deteriorating.

[xantia_v6]

I tested our 308 alternator once by connecting the main lead to the battery as normal, but the lin bus wire I connected to another (loose) alternator which was also connected to the battery. On starting the engine, the alternator which was spinning started charging the battery, but the one which wasn't threw a fault code for implausible RPM (or something similar).

[wurlycorner]

All completed late this afternoon and running smoothly - none of the chatter noise it used to do and no visible jumping or vibration in the belt


For reference, pics below showing how far the a/c compressor can be made to drop without disconnecting the pipework.

Generally follow the instructions, but everything I said earlier about which things you don’t need to remove/disconnect and which you do, holds true.
I disconnected (and reconnected) the plug and loom fir-tree clip from the alternator while it was up bolted in position. It’s not possible to get at the main terminal in that position though - leave it connected.
With the drivers side of the front undertray undone (clip from the arch liner and the three screws removed) and pulled down on that side, plus the air inlet duct disconnected and swung clear and by pulling down further on the pulley of the a/c compressor (will temporarily swing it down a little further) and by twisting the alternator the right way, there is just enough room to sneak the old alternator out between the a/c compressor, chassis leg/front crossmember and lower sub-frame arm.
You can pull the alternator into a space between all those, hang it there and undo/disconnect the main alternator charge terminal like that, then pull it out.
It’s also possible to reach an arm up through a hole in the front undertray, through where the air inlet duct connects, to get decent access to the front of the engine. I found this helpful for positioning the alternator back etc and for replacing the loom fir-tree clips (the fir-tree parts get damaged when you remove them and don’t go back tightly otherwise). PSA part number 6980A3.

It’s a good days work imo, simply because everything is so damn awkward to access and so fiddly (and therefore time consuming) to undo.

Now that’s out of the way, I have the joy of getting back to fault finding the other faults I knew I had

[MattBLancs]

Excellent - glad to hear it did the trick

[the-termin8r]

I'm hoping for your sake you don't have the same issue.

Soo...guess what mine's going in to get checked for tomorrow.



About a week ago I heard what sounded like the squeal from a sticky brake, but it was coming intermittently from under the bonnet even when not moving. Didn't get a chance to look into it because I had my bodyshop appointment. Then yesterday while coming home I was rolling down a hill in my area. 40 MPH, locked it to 3rd in manual mode 2-2.2K RPM and I hear this underlying whirring noise. It sounded like an odd mix between a failing bearing and a loose plastic engine cover vibrating on the running engine. Whirring went down in pitch while engine braking until about 1K where it became imperceptible. When static and revving it in neutral it does the same. Removed the engine cover just to be sure, no difference.

Took it to Chevronics over lunch, gave one of their guys a short ride to demo it and they gave it a quick look in the shop. Their preliminary diagnosis was something in the aux belt "loop" so tomorrow they'll remove the belt and test each pulley to try and find the cause. Then they'll go from there.

Oh joy.

[the-termin8r]

Right, diagnosis currently stands at the tensioner and idler pulley being the culprits. Now it's just a case of parts sourcing.

[wurlycorner]

I did the tensioner pulley myself, earlier this year.
Bought the genuine PSA part, via eBay.
Part number 1611422780, but you can buy the complete tensioner (INA - decent manufacturer) through EuroCarParts for less than I paid for just the pulley - I didn’t fancy changing the whole tensioner.
Didn’t do the idler bearing.

[the-termin8r]

I ended up finding originals of both parts on EuroFrance24. They seem to be a Polish parts supplier, similar to ECP over here I'd assume. In total I paid £170 for parts and delivery. I don't know if that's a rip-off or not, but they were the cheapest and the only ones that offered actual Citroen parts, so I'm content. They should be arriving this week I think.

[KennyW]

Rob,

I used Eurofrance24 in the past and didn't have any problems. The parts arrived quicker than I expected so that was a bonus.

Kenny

[the-termin8r]

Right, it's in today. The car got very angry at me on Friday (a day after the parts came in). The noise got much much worse and it said the battery wasn't charging. Opened the bonnet to check if the belt was still there and it was, but it smelled of warm rubber. My guess is things really seized up and the belt was just sliding around on the pulleys without them spinning properly. So I'm having a new belt put in as well...3 months after I already had it replaced. Had to get it transported on a flatbed up to Hitchin this morning. Hoping to get it back by the end of the day.