Dispatch fuel pump

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 09 Jul 2011, 21:40

Its "ALIVE" the dispatch is running

.
But not without a few issues one of which still needs to be resolved.

1: The washer for the centrifugal governor got behind the flyweights during assembly instead of where they should have been as in the photo.
My mistake and meant pump back off half strip and back together,and refit to van.

This did not stop it running so a lot off head scratching later.

2: We adjusted the full load adjusting screw in slightly to keep the van running, I think the governor plate fitted from citrojims old pump may have been slightly different so would need adjusting anyway, this we re adjusted when I had the other part in correctly.It is still in a different position than when we first started.

Not to concerned about this as when its running ok i will adjust to suit and lock it off.

3: The throttle lever gave us a real headache because WE DID'NT MARK IT before we took it off

.
We had the screwdriver slot accross the body insted of in this position in photo and could'nt get any throttle response.

We turned it so it was long ways and parrallel to the body and got throttle response DOOH .
Now here lies the unresolved problem, the response is very slow would it be that the lever still needs turning to more like the position shown in the photo or could there be something else I'm missing.

Thought I would put this photo up to show the flimsy spring used on this particular pump, mine and alot of others I have seen are so much heavier duty than this.

Being a bit gung ho does not get the job done,I've learnt alot from this little project and the number one thing is "Spend time marking things out and taking notes during a strip down".
Dont be afraid to have a go.
Any help on getting the throttle to respond quicker would be great.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 10 Jul 2011, 22:15

Just a quick update , it appears the full load adjustment screw affects the throttle response quite alot !!!.
This is now wound in to within 2 threads of the anti tamper ring which is about the same as my xantia.
On doing this the idle stop screw has to be wound out to compensate.
It now responds much better to the go faster pedal but I still have to tune it some more.
Oh and the throttle damper has decided to seize up

so has been removed.
I guess this is only effective when the engine is cold so wont bother replacing unless anyone thinks it would be better with it on.

And just a big thank you to the persons blog of the stripped down pump whose photos I have used,
here is the link

http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pump/-Rebuild#26

spider · Post by **spider** » 11 Jul 2011, 09:46

Good to read the progress

, sorry I could not help much more than my initial posts but you're sorted now it seems.

Regarding the throttle damper (mini strut) it was quite common on 406's which had the Bosch pump to throw them away too given their high prices. It should not stall on deceleration anyway really even without it.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 11 Jul 2011, 11:04

Hi Andy yes been a bit of an ordeal but i think we did quite well.
Taking it for a run down the duel carrage way to get it up to speed in a short while.
still a little concerned if I am ok winding the full load adjusting screw in and setting the tick over screw down.
good to know about the damper though.
Will update after the run out.

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Jul 2011, 06:22

Good work indeed! Well done, excellent work

It's a bit tricky to reset the throttle when it's not marked but the best will be to set it on to the point where it idles at the right speed against the idle screw and does not tend to stall when the engine is revved and the throttle then suddenly released. The relation to idle speed and stalling along with the throttle lever position on the shaft is critical.

Then, and only then, adjust the full load screw so that the engine just red-lines off-load on full throttle. Be careful the engine does not over-rev and this is critical as this is what the MOT man does to test for smoke. If the max load screw is improperly adjusted and the engine exceeds maximum revs there's a chance of damage.

It's going to take a bit of playing with it but you'll get there!

Poor response is often a timing issue. Are you 100% sure the pump is back on exactly where it came off?

A little experimentation with tining may be in order. On hot idle you want to set the timing such that you can just hear the merest, merest hint of diesel knock as a light tinkle. Back it off a tad and then snap the throttle open. The revs should immediately rise and no hint of diesel knock or tinkle should be heard. If the timing is a bit retarded then it will be a bit reluctant to rev quickly.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 12 Jul 2011, 11:18

Thanks Jim we are quite pleased with ourselves.
following the 25 mile drive on the A12 we had the van upto 80mph with out a problem and cruised at 70mph just fine.Considering its a none turbo and although I did'nt drive, it felt reasonably responsive.
Interesting point about the full load screw Jim, we dont know if that damn AA man played with it.
The anti tamper ring was in place so i think he may not have BUT ??,in relation to how mine is set I can see 2 clear threads at the end of the adjusting screw and on the dispatch I could clearly see 5 and a half threads.
I would'nt have thought there would be that much difference in the govenor plates !!! .
So I have wound the full load adjusting screw about 3 and a half threads which seems excessive.
Maybe I have adjusted a bit to far and need to tweak it back

.
If I take the screw back it has a very sluggish response to no load throttle.I am still reading up on the pump,and in the link I put up the pdf on the VE pump makes for an intense read.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 21 Jul 2011, 21:54

Hi just a lttle update the dispatch is out and about on the road and starts and runs ok although takes awhile to get cracking and looses power on slight hills, this is in comparison to my sons 1700 non turbo combi van.
We are going to have a go at tuning this weekend subject to our inclement weather LOL.
We were speaking to someone who knows a little about diesels and he thinks we may have to wind the full load screw back to its original spot (within a couple of threads as other post), and move the throttle linkage to compensate.
And or rotate the pump slightly towrds the front of engine bay advance or retard ?? not sure.
Now this in theory sounds ok but was wondering what others here might think.
We are open to any suggestions on tune up sequence.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 21:28

Well this is the final update for this little project.
We took the van out to get her warmed up for tuning.
As we came up behing a slow moving sprinter I told my son to overtake it to see what the acceleration was like.
As we over took the vehicle he commited the cardinal sin of all sins HE MISSED 3rd to 4th gear the engine got to approx 4500 to 5000 rpm.
Not clever on a pump that has no restriction to it anyway what sounded like a tinkle and whirring sound eminated from the engine bay and all went silent.
WTF was that as we coasted to the side of the road clutch down and no engine.
On removing the fuel pump plastic at the side of the road there came a tinkle tinkle.
I bent down and picked up 5 pieces of sprocket from the road.
The following day we pulled the rest of the covers of removed another 11 pieces of sprocket and the shredded timing belt.
Now just to see if we had DAMAGED anything LOL we put another sprocket on re timed it put a new belt on and it started hooray.
But it was as sick as a sick parrot boohoo I wonder why that could be.
Anyway the spindly sprocket what are they made of Brie I think.
I got the new sprocket from my local citroen specialist and he says he has seen plenty of theses ones go bang and did'nt seem the least bit supprised.
I suppose the thing to learn from this is to very very careful when taking this "Brie" sprocket off and on.
Oh and heres why it was running like a sick parrot and it really did run with the cam like this.Maybe it is a triple overhead cam engine !!!!.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... -00047.jpg

spider · Post by **spider** » 19 Aug 2011, 08:42

oops

This is why they are limited to 4.75K / 5K unloaded

The 'cam-o-three' is normal with a cambelt breakage though.

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 19 Aug 2011, 17:15

That looks familiar!
Clean them up and they make nice paperweights

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 19 Aug 2011, 22:54

If only it had broken into 4 i could have made a nice coffee table.
Anyway thanks all for reading and posting your thoughts and tips, sorry that I did'nt get around to doing the tune up.
Maybe another time as the pump is still intact and will be stored ready for my next adventure.
I suppose I should leave it stored full of a very light oil,I wonder if cooking oil would be better than diesel mmmmmm !!!.

spider · Post by **spider** » 20 Aug 2011, 10:53

I think LHM is recommended for storage, as derv will go off after a few months.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 20 Aug 2011, 12:27

thanks for that Andy would LHM be better than a light oil such as cooking oil.