CitroJim's AX, C3 Picasso, Cycling and Running Tales

[Ben82]

That's a bit personal.

[CitroJim]

LOL at that ^^^

James, point taken!

[Mandrake]

Had a visit from a poorly V6 Xantia today. Owner complained of poor performance, misfiring and popping in the exhaust...

Simon? I'm sure he's had all those symptoms

No, not Simon unless he's taken up residence in Milton Keynes and changed his name to Liam...

If so, he's done a good job of loosing his Kiwi accent

I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking...

And no, no popping in the exhaust, so it wasn't me...

[Mandrake]

My V6 refuses to start most times, in fact i often switch to the TD midstream rather than face the embarassment of a clunking starter solenoid. Got to get rid soon ...

Mike, it's not a difficult mod at all.. Mandrake has done it and he's closer to you I guess...

It's really not a difficult job, I used a standard 30 amp automotive relay and a socket with a built in fuse holder. I took the power from one of the thick feed wires under the bottom right hand end of the fuse box, and just used wire, crimp spade connectors (including a tap on connector to steal the main supply feed for the relay) and insulating sleeves.

Apart from the main power feed wire mentioned above all the other wires you need are below the 2nd relay from the left (at least on mine) which is the starter inhibit relay for the gearbox, so I just cut the wires there and spliced in the relay, then wrapped a bit of tape around the relay and socket to make sure they never come apart and threw them into the empty space in the bottom of the left hand end of the fuse box! Pity I didn't take any pictures of it while doing the job...

I'd say £15 worth of parts including wires/terminals etc and maybe half an hour to an hours work to do a nice neat job of it.

It's never ever failed to start first time since the modification...

[Mandrake]

Mine is a series 2 and I had no spare relay sockets either, hence why I bought a cord style relay socket with a built in fuse holder, and threw it into the empty space in the box below the other relays with short fly leads

I'm off next week so if I remember I'll see if I can lift the fuse box off and take some photos.

[Ben82]

I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking...

This might help
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[Mandrake]

No, no wiring runs to the ignition switch required, all the wiring modifications are entirely contained within the engine bay fuse box. Apart from the single 12v run from the right hand end of the fuse box which is maybe 10 inches long they're all short runs of a few inches just between the two relays.

The power that normally supplies the starter solenoid comes from the ignition switch, goes to the starter inhibit relay contacts which was the 2nd relay in my fuse box, from there it goes to the starter. What we do is cut the wire from the ignition switch to the inhibit relay and insert our new relay there.

The coil ground is wired in parallel with the coil ground of the existing relay, the wire coming from the ignition switch now supplies the coil plus of the new relay. The normally open contacts of the the new relay now go between a new heavy 12V supply (via the built in fuse on my fuse holder) and the contacts of the original inhibit relay. Thus when the key is turned to starter the new relay turns on, 12v from a direct feed goes through the new relay to the inhibit relay to the starter...so the ignition key now only has to power the relay coil instead of the starter solenoid, so even if the contacts are quite burnt it will work reliably.

It's very similar to the cabin blower relay mod in the Series 1 Xantia.

I'll check my emails tonight to find which relay and relay socket I ordered, I found a dinky socket that was perfect for the job, having the fuse holder built in saves a lot of extra spade terminals, wire, insulation, fuse holder and faffing about, and makes it more physically robust. I think I documented some of my relay modification in one of my other threads too, (no pictures though) I'll see if I can find it.

[Mandrake]

I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking...

This might help
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I don't talk like that Ben.

[Mandrake]

Mine is a series 2 and I had no spare relay sockets either, hence why I bought a cord style relay socket with a built in fuse holder, and threw it into the empty space in the box below the other relays with short fly leads

I'm off next week so if I remember I'll see if I can lift the fuse box off and take some photos.

Cheers Simon, that will help a lot. Meanwhile i'll source a relay and wiring (what capacity?). Is that all i need? Are there no wiring runs to the ignition switch at all, sounds like its all at the fusebox end? And ... if you forget, i'll remind you

Apoligies Jim, not really relevant to your blog.

I'm sure Jim won't mind his thread being derailed for the umpteenth time, last time I derailed it we were talking about central heating boilers so this is at least about Citroen's, and one of his favourite models.

I checked through my photos and found that I had already taken before and after photos when I did the job which I never posted to the forum. They don't show precise wiring (use the pin numbers on the relay sockets and Jim's wiring diagram for that) but it does at least show some physical context. So here they are. First a view of my fuse box to confirm whether its the same as yours:



On mine the brown relay second from the left is the starter inhibit relay (1005 on Jim's diagram) and I have no spare relay sockets as I too have headlight washers. To confirm its the right relay unplug it and it should disable the starter - you won't even get a click in the start position if you've pulled the right relay.

Wiring under the relays:



Yes all the wires to the brown relay are green so go by the pin numbers on the socket and if necessary use a multimeter to confirm the voltages do what is expected.

Here is the after view with the new relay/fuse fitted:



The two small wires going to the same terminal on the brown relay is ground for coil negative, in the after shot you can see that it also goes to the new relay coil negative. The large green wire going between the old and new relay is the wire that comes from the ignition switch which has been cut, the ignition switch end goes to coil + on the new relay, the end going to the original relay goes to the non fused relay contact on the new relay. You can see the green fuse plugged into the relay itself on the left hand side, I think I used 30 amp, although I believe the starter solenoid only draws just under 10 amps so 20 amps is probably fine.

You can see a red wire from the new relay sneaking off towards the right, that's the new 12v feed, and goes to the fused relay contact. We'll come to that in a moment...

Here is another view where I've taped the relay and socket up together to make sure the fuse stays in its socket and the relay also stays in its socket (although both are very tight anyway) and is about to be stuffed down inside the box:



As you can see, plenty of room for it. I could have wrapped it in a bit of foam but I was too lazy. Again the red wire is seen to snake off to the right. So where did I get the new 12v feed from without running a new wire from the battery ?

From here:


This white plug plugs up into the underneath of the right hand section where the small fuses are, towards the front of the car. Here is another view:



On my car this wire seems to feed a fuse slot that doesn't have a fuse and isn't actually used, and goes back directly to the battery. Be careful removing this white plug, it has a clip that holds it in that is not obvious and is quite fiddly to release - I broke the clip on mine before I even realised there was a clip.

Even though it doesn't seem to be used, what I did was to cut the wire an inch down from the plug, and use 3 spade terminals with sheaths, one "piggy back" connector and two spades to go on it to make a 3 way junction, then in addition to the sheath on each spade I wrapped the whole 3 way junction with a few layers of electrical tape to make extra sure it couldn't short to anything then pushed the plug back into its socket on the under side of the fuse tray, with the new red wire running across to the new relay.

Releasing and tipping the fuse tray over enough to get underneath is fiddly and there isn't much spare wire length to work with either, so this is the hardest part of the job, by comparison actually fitting the new relay is a dawdle.

Here's the relay with built in fuse I used:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I used this flying socket:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As well as that I used standard spade/blade terminals, insulating sheaths, and wire also from the same supplier. You want 2mm^2 (squared) wire gauge, and terminals that will take 1.5 - 2.5mm^2 wire:

Female blade connector 030204:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Male blade connector 030102:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Insulators 030503:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The piggy back terminal I used was 030402:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course you need a crimping tool too. A cheap one is fine:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/471" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hopefully that gives a better idea of what needs to be done.

[myglaren]

I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking...

This might help
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I don't talk like that Ben.

I bet you don't sing like her either

[Mandrake]

I bet you don't sing like her either

I know who she is guys

Not my kind of music...

[addo]

No; I'd put you more with the iPhone users in music taste; probably "quirky person with piano" - either Ben Folds or Regina Spektor.

[CitroJim]

I'm sure Jim won't mind his thread being derailed for the umpteenth time, last time I derailed it we were talking about central heating boilers so this is at least about Citroen's, and one of his favourite models.

Nope, not a problem at all Simon Very good to see how you did yours...

[CitroJim]

Yesterday I washed my two cars. I thought that was it for car washing this weekend...

Sian's Nissan Pixo is due an MOT so this afternoon she called round so I could do a pre-MOT on it.

I found no problems but we both agreed it could do with a good valet inside. It looked a bit like a McDonald's skip and had straw in it. It was also a bit mucky outside so we set to between us and tidied and hoovered it inside and washed it outside.

A great bit of father/daughter bonding very enjoyable!

The Pixo is now four years old and after it's spruce-up it looks like a brand-new car.

It may be a cheap Suzuki Alto clone made in Mumbai but I've got to say it's jolly well made and is standing the test of time very well. The paint is particularly good and hide the number plate and you'd have a job distinguishing it from a brand-new car...

Earlier I went to see Chris (570) and amongst other things we tried to see if an ES9 engine would fit into a Mazda RX-8. Sadly we now know it won't. The cooling system presents intractable difficulties as well as the overall engine being a bit too big to clear the subframe.

I have some pictures of our attempt and I'll get them up on the server at some point.

All in all, a very good day.. The run over to Chris's in the XM was incredibly enjoyable as was a trip out in the Activa last evening...

[CitroJim]

It been a very quiet time on the car front. I've not been doing much really, generally taking it very easy and very much better for it too...

I did give the Activa, now firmly established as daily driver, an oil and filter change but done precious little else except work since then.

Today has been gorgeous and for one coincided with my day off (I work part-time and have Wednesdays off) so being it was nice I felt like a bit of gentle spannering and attacked a problem I've known about on the XM for a while - a seized retainer on the spare wheel carrier. It meant that the spare wheel was impossible to drop out of it's carrier if I should have needed it on a journey so it was concerning me a little.

I'd been Plus-Gassing the thread of the retainer for a few weeks now and today, after grinding up a tool to fit the slot in the top of the screw in the boot that i could get a decent bar onto the thing finally loosened and undid

I was still stuck because the spring-loaded safety catch was also seized solid and more Plus-Gas and Percy-Whatsit was needed to release that. Eventually it did and I could check the condition of the spare wheel and jack - both good...

I tried to remove the whole carrier but the hinge bolt is very tight at the end of it's thread so for today that job was abandoned for next time as my energy budget was a bit depleted by then.

I gave both the retainer thread and the safety catch a good greasing and am happy now I can get at my spare should I ever need it.

Earlier I woke the Xantia V6 briefly from hibernation and took it out for a warm up and battery charge. The car has been untouched for about three weeks and only just started. I fear the battery is getting a bit weak so for the winter I'll likely replace it.

On the drive I felt a small clunk and didn't really think or take a lot of notice until I went to pull away at a junction and was amazed at how gutless the car was - the gearbox had dropped into third emergency and I could see the sport and snow lights flashing.

An ELIT check on returning home revealed the reason to be an intermittency in the multi-function switch that tells the ECU what gear is selected on the gear selector lever.. It cleared OK and touch-wood it's not re-appeared despite much exercising of the selector from P to 1 and back again. Maybe just lack of use.

These old Citroens don't like being laid-up at all Still, she'll be back in daily use once the winter returns...