Xantia V6 broken exhaust (update: and rough low rpm running)

[Mandrake]

I've never seen two people who want to sell their cars try so hard to talk someone out of buying them because they're "not good enough".

Either car looks like a big step up on mine, both in body condition and the fact that the engines and gearboxes actually work! I'll very likely take one or the other (if you guys will sell, geeze ) if nothing else comes up in the next few weeks, its just a matter of weighing up the pros and cons.

Red and 9 months MOT with no advisories counts for a lot, as does the fact that WFA have previously done maintenance on the car...the body work also looks pretty darn good to me, compared to mine. The price is good too.

Downsides are distance, aircon needs fixing, rear window winders, high mileage gearbox, even if it has had oil changes and currently runs perfectly. I'm assuming there is no record of an overhaul in the receipts.

Superloopy's car - 95k mileage with a 50k gearbox is a big draw, as is the fact that it's near by. Dark grey I'm not crazy about but I'm sure it still looks very nice in the flesh compared to mine. A few minor scratches here and there don't bother me.

Downsides are the price is a bit higher (unless he's willing to drop a bit) and I don't really know much else about the car, possible problems or work that might be needed. A car that has sat a lot and done hardly any mileage (less than 1000 miles a year apparently) is sometimes a bad thing as old cars don't like being left to sit.

Maybe superloopy can answer a few questions - like how many months MOT is left and were there any advisories ? is the aircon working ? How are the Suspension spheres and ride ? Are all the window winders working ? Fan ?

How does it actually drive and run ? That's extremely important to me - if the gearbox and engine perform and drive like a charm, a lot of other minor work that might need doing can be overlooked... I'm not afraid of fettling, I did an awful lot to this car, but its the unsolvable stuff like gearbox problems and deep rooted engine problems I can't deal with.

It's close enough that I could possibly go and see it for myself before deciding whether to buy or not or before seeing the other car...

I'm assuming both cars have no history of timing belt change ? Again, not a show stopper, if the car is otherwise in good running order. I'm willing to do a timing belt on a car that runs well to preserve it...

[Mandrake]

Hi Mike, (superloopy - too many Mike's in here )

It's a shame you seem to think your car isn't up to snuff! I think you're very likely wrong about that, but if you don't want to sell it that's your prerogative. Kerbed wheels aren't a problem - my alloys are in good condition so I could just swap them all over!

I was actually thinking of a solution to this conundrum on the way to work this morning - what if me and SWMBO drove down (instead of catching the train) for a no commitment visit - a chance to meet and say Hi, (a social visit as much as anything) a chance for me to see your car, look under it, go for a drive with you in it, and a chance for you to see the condition of my car, go for a drive in my car too, so you can see what I might be upgrading from and the problems I'm experiencing with it.

Because SWMBO doesn't drive there is no way I could collect the car on the day, thus there is no pressure for either you or I to make a hasty on the spot decision. Even if I was head over heels for it on the day I'd have to arrange a train trip a week or two later to collect it after cooler heads had had a chance to prevail. If I still wanted it by then it's probably a goodun.

I've worked out it would take me just under a tank of petrol for the 290 mile return trip and would make a nice outing for me and SWMBO. There is a small risk that my car will throw its toys on the trip but I think it will most likely be ok as I do roughly 400-500 miles a month as it is anyway.

I think you'd be surprised at how good your car probably is compared to mine. We know the gearbox is low mileage and the cam belt has been done too - that's two major points in its favour!

What does a misbehaving gearbox do ? Here's what mine does:

1) When accelerating under moderate throttle on the upshift the engine revs "flare up" just as it changes up a gear, this is a sign of slipping clutches in the main gearbox.
2) When slowing down in 2nd gear and then pulling away still in second gear (not quite slow enough to change down to 1st) there is sometimes quite a shudder, which feels a bit like a manual clutch that has oil on it - this is a sign of a shot torque converter clutch
3) when coasting down hill on the overrun in 2nd it occasionally out of nowhere gives quite a bang/jolt that passes right through the car - this is probably a sign of low oil pressure.
4) When accelerating on the pickup in 2nd/3rd it often gives a jolt where the engine revs suddenly drop - this is the torque converter clutch grabbing. (it's probably right through the friction material into the metal like a worn set of brake pads)
5) Under steady acceleration you can hear the engine rpm fluctuate a bit - may also be a sign of clutch slip. (Or it might be my dodgy engine)

The gearbox not seeming to know what gear it wants to be in is actually a quirk of the autoadaptive system - that doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with it. Even back when mine was working ok it was a little bit scatterbrained in that way - I think they all are. You learn to work around the gear selection quirks with manual use of sport mode or down shifting.

I'm surprised to hear you say it seems heavy and cumbersome - I never found mine to be like that back when the engine performance was normal - it used to go like a scalded cat that would spin the wheels from a stationary stop and fly around the corners. Now it's like a lazy barge most of the time. Perhaps your engine is not quite running right or needs a tune up like new plugs, plug wires etc. I'd still like to drive it and draw my own conclusion - if I think there is a problem with the engine/gearbox performance I can let you know, as I still kind of remember what mine used to be like when it ran properly, and very occasionally it decides to run normally for a while! (the engine, not the gearbox)

I would feel happier buying northern_mike's one if I had at least seen yours first hand - that way I would have a comparison and have an idea whether I was buying the one that best suited me or not. Otherwise there would always be a lingering doubt in my mind that maybe I didn't get the right one...

Up to you really!

[Mandrake]

Ok thanks Mike, no problem.

[Northern_Mike]

Buy the shiny red one Simon .... it makes sense at that price. You're losing very little in the unlikely circumstance that it doesn't work out for you. You'd at least get your money back on the auctions.

No, buy the grey one. It's not a rusty old shed!

This lunchtime, I decided to take it to get clean, then I could take some pictures to send to Simon. First of all, In the interests of complete openness, I decided to see what the "rusty stain" in one of the rear door jambs really was, so poked a screwdriver into it. Perhaps I should use the words "through it" instead.... not pretty



and to make matters worse, when I started her up, she bloody well sank at the rear and refused to come up.



<insert various curses of varying offensiveness here>

Scrap Xantia V6 project anyone? I really can't be arsed now! That does, to be honest, appear to be the only rust anywhere on the sills. It was mostly under the paint, so probably got missed by the MOT tester.

I'll still do a video later, but I'm damned if I'm cleaning it now. I'll film my drive to work...

I think you should buy a C5 Simon.....

[Northern_Mike]

She does get the odd run out to keep things moving but i wouldnt know a good gearbox from bad and find the car changes up/down to be inconvenient at times

Gearbox - They all do that, it's a "feature" of the auto-adaptive supposedly learning how you drive. It's a load of crap really. It's a lovely box to potter around with, or go fast in straightish lines but driving it fast on bendy roads is erm, challenging. An imaginary conversation with it might go something along the lines of...

Car: "What gear do you want?"
You: "hmm, corner coming.. 3rd?"
Car: " Well, you can have 4th. Actually, no, you dirty Rosbif, you can have 2nd, see you like that" <lurch>

[Mandrake]

Ah crap. I hate rust holes...

The not rising at the back is not a big deal, mine sometimes does that too if I try to go from service low directly to service high - the height corrector linkage sticks slightly and it refuses to come up. If I then put the lever back into low, then back to the middle position it obeys. It's also not very accurate at setting the rear height for the same reason - it varies up to +/- 20mm each way from what it should be. I happen to have a complete spare rear height corrector and linkage assembly unused should it be needed. I would have eventually fitted it to my silver one but obviously not now...

But damn that rust is a shame. Mine has some bubbling there on both rear door sills so I suspect if I tried I could put a screwdriver through mine too.

I'd be interested to see RichardW's opinion on that rust hole, given that there would be about 9 months to get something done about it instead of 6 weeks...

The problem with a C5 Mike, is they're just so.....ugly.... and uninspired... Except for the C5 X7, which I like, but the earlier C5's, no thanks. Not as a fun "drivers" car anyway. They're also starting to get old enough to have the same problems too - but minus the fun when they are working properly!

[Mandrake]

Nope. My Silver Exclusive doesn't have a sun roof either.

[Northern_Mike]

Once you get a couple of cm away from the hole, the metal is solid. I gave it a good savaging. All the flaky and rotten metal has been pulled off. I might attack it with the dremel in the morning and cut a shape out then it's more obvious.

Apart from what you saw on the pics underneath when Malcolm was repairing it, there's little, if any rust anywhere on the car. The opposite door shut is clean as a whistle.

If I could be bothered to drive it up to Lancs, I'd weld it myself. It's not a serious hole. In fact the metal around it is so solid you'd think it were a drain hole if you didn't know better. Just a massive one you can stick a finger through...

Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk

[CitroJim]

Nope. My Silver Exclusive doesn't have a sun roof either.

Nor does mine.It does have a similar patch of rust though..

As said, not serious and trivial to have welded

[Mandrake]

Nope. My Silver Exclusive doesn't have a sun roof either.

Nor does mine.It does have a similar patch of rust though..

As said, not serious and trivial to have welded

Ok so maybe that rust isn't a major issue then, especially if I'd have 9 months to get it sorted. A sticky height corrector doesn't bother me either, especially when I have a new unused one sitting in a box... The only problem there is judging by the state of the pipes into the height corrector I'd have to get Pleiades to make up some new height corrector pipes for me before I could fit it - I have the same problem on this car where the height corrector pipe unions have all exploded with rust and almost certainly wouldn't come out with anything other than a pair of mole grips...(one reason I never got around to fitting it)

[RichardW]

I always thought repairing that area well was going to be tough, as the metal is (was ) pretty thick and it's got a compound curve. There should in fact be the original sill directly under the top plate, and it looks like there might be a hole in the strengthener behind Mike's hand? If you look at the pics of the green one in the sticky thread: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 0&start=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you can see where the sill should be (but isn't anymore!!). As that has disappeared there is nothing to weld the bottom to really. So an angle plate would need to be made up, and welded into the top of the sill - either plug(*) welded, or better still, a bit cut out of the top of the sill, and then butt welded in (you can't lap it over the top as the door may not shut!! - or maybe there is enough room for that?). This will then give you something to (plug) weld the upper part to, which if you want a decent job, will need to be butt welded in to the remaining good metal. It'll be a few hours work to make a decent job of it! If you weren't bothered about what it looked like though, you could just whack a lap patch over it and underseal it Best repair patch would be one sourced from a sound car.....

* Plug is the arc equivalent of a spot weld - you drill a hole in top panel, clamp them together, and then put a circle of weld on the bottom panel to hold it together.

[Northern_Mike]

I always thought repairing that area well was going to be tough, as the metal is (was ) pretty thick and it's got a compound curve. There should in fact be the original sill directly under the top plate, and it looks like there might be a hole in the strengthener behind Mike's hand?

My hand is like that because my finger is all the way through the hole

So, the whole area was covered in paint with just a couple of rust bubbles. I decided rather than waste Simon's time more, I'd find out what was under it with the screwdriver. So I picked a bit... then it looked like this..



Of course, I couldn't stop then. I had to pick more and more and more until I had got rid of all the rusty metal.



Was the final result. The main sill (the inner bit) is actually pretty solid. I've given it a good battering with the screwdriver, so it might be ok to weld to if one can fashion a repair section for it, though I think it's (-expletive removed-) to be frank.

[Mandrake]

I wonder if that bit of my car is sound and could be cut out with an angle grinder or dremel or whether it too is fubared.....I'm a complete know nothing when it comes to rust repairs...

[Northern_Mike]

I always thought repairing that area well was going to be tough, as the metal is (was ) pretty thick and it's got a compound curve. There should in fact be the original sill directly under the top plate, and it looks like there might be a hole in the strengthener behind Mike's hand? If you look at the pics of the green one in the sticky thread: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 0&start=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you can see where the sill should be (but isn't anymore!!). As that has disappeared there is nothing to weld the bottom to really. So an angle plate would need to be made up, and welded into the top of the sill - either plug(*) welded, or better still, a bit cut out of the top of the sill, and then butt welded in (you can't lap it over the top as the door may not shut!! - or maybe there is enough room for that?). This will then give you something to (plug) weld the upper part to, which if you want a decent job, will need to be butt welded in to the remaining good metal. It'll be a few hours work to make a decent job of it! If you weren't bothered about what it looked like though, you could just whack a lap patch over it and underseal it Best repair patch would be one sourced from a sound car.....

* Plug is the arc equivalent of a spot weld - you drill a hole in top panel, clamp them together, and then put a circle of weld on the bottom panel to hold it together.

There just appears to be fresh air between the top "outer sill" and the strengthener, as though there should have been foam there or something. It's just fresh air. Weird. If I were doing this repair, I'd cut out from the rear edge of the hole, to about 1" in front of it - a "rectangle" and weld a new piece in. It should be ok as the rest of it is actually metal not rust. Used to do plenty of welding, but I just realised looking at the calendar that it's more than 10 years since I last picked up a MIG!

[RichardW]

Mike - I thought the entire top edge of the outer sill had gone, but I can see now that is not the case - so yes, just a patch on that inner sill, ground back (and probably hammered a bit under flush!), then a new bit over the top to make it come right. Best finish would be obtained by using a piece cut from a good car, and butt welded in...

I wonder if that bit of my car is sound and could be cut out with an angle grinder or dremel or whether it too is fubared.....I'm a complete know nothing when it comes to rust repairs...

There's only one way to find out..... give it a good poke with a screwdriver and see what happens. If it is solid, then it will be just a couple of minutes work to cut out the good bit, courtesy of Mr A Grinder