CitroJim wrote: 21 Feb 2024, 14:18
Several times, such cars have been in significant danger of being rear-ended.
That's not the fault of the stop-start system is it Jim? If one drives at a stopped car, it's one's own fault for crashing into it.
I'd rather have stop-start than filthy, idling cars all over the village in the morning. The traffic gets terrible down in Twyford at the crossroads, regularly backs up more than half a mile in 3 of the 4 directions.
You have an entirely different issue there Mike that we don't have in MK. We have fast-moving, free-flowing traffic where queues as you describe just don't exist. Driving in MK requires fast reactions and rapid starts at roundabouts and junctions. Some describe driving in MK like being on a racetrack.
In your case where you have slow, creeping queues then start/stop has a role and anything that cuts down the pollution those queues generate is good. No disagreement there.
In your scenario, stop/start addresses only the symptom and not the root cause. I witnessed all those slow crawling queues a while back in your neck of the woods and how you and your fellow residents put up with it is entirely beyond me.
I hasten to add that I've not rear-ended anyone or even come close. I'm aware of the hazard and act accordingly. I used it an example of a potential outcome of the use of stop/start.
As a latecomer to this discussion I would add that I have today been using a car with stop/start but it didn't suffer with slow take off at all! The reason? It was a hybrid and (I'll be posting about it in a bit when I decide which thread is best I put it here!) consequently it responded instantly to the throttle even though the engine had stopped. The electric motor took over and the engine joined in after a second or two. So I'd say stop/start is fine if you find a way of eliminating the dangerous delays which the hybrid does!!
Last edited by mickthemaverick on 21 Feb 2024, 20:12, edited 1 time in total.
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
That sounds like a really good application of the technology, with the electric motor mitigating the safety risk from the stop-start. However it'll be a few years before I can benefit from it - I'm not wealthy enough to buy new cars, so I tend to buy cars around 10-14 years old. I do then spend quite a lot on maintaining them well, but even so, the price per mile is much more acceptable than new car with all that massive depreciation.
Apparently it was 2014 when the EU and UK made the stop-start function mandatory in new cars. I guess that means that I'll be going for something between 2010 and 2013 (if I can't fix my C5).
I agree, I don't think there is any law about Stop Start being required. It is simply that manufacturers have had to meet increasingly tougher EU standards which cover everything from emissions to safety and build.
Stop Start is one way a manufacturer can 'cheat' as if they fit Stop Start technology, it allows them to claim reduced emissions and therefore they can more easily meet the standards. However as we all know and have discussed above, that in reality this system has so many requirements for it to operate that it rarely works!
Things have changed slightly now with the new 'real world' tests that manufacturers have to undertake to give more realistic economy figures which are much lower than the old system - in other words are more likely to be nearer what you can expect than the over-exaggerated figures.
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Looks like you're right, Jim. I just asked an AI Chatbot (at gab.com) about it, and the AI said:
In the UK, there is no specific legislation that mandates the use of stop-start systems in vehicles. However, the European Commission has enacted legislation that indirectly affects the adoption of stop-start systems in the UK, as the UK is a member of the European Union.
The relevant legislation is the European Union's CO2 emissions standards for new passenger cars, specifically the Euro 6 standard that came into effect in September 2014. This standard requires car manufacturers to reduce their average CO2 emissions to 95 grams per kilometer by 2020. One way for manufacturers to achieve this goal is by implementing stop-start systems in their vehicles, as these systems can help reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.
While the UK is no longer a member of the European Union, the CO2 emissions standards for new passenger cars still apply to vehicles produced and sold in the UK, as they were in place before the UK's departure from the EU. As a result, car manufacturers continue to develop and implement stop-start systems in their vehicles to meet these emissions standards. In summary, while there is no specific legislation in the UK that mandates stop-start systems, the European Union's CO2 emissions standards have indirectly driven the adoption of these systems in the UK as part of the effort to reduce CO2 emissions from new passenger cars.
Going slightly off topic here, but I agree with you, Marc. The move to more realistic MPG and range is a great step forward, and should reduce reliance on gimmicks. However I think they should also have to publish MPG and range figures for their performance when towing a standard load. I doubt they'd do this though, because it would show people another downside of battery-powered cars.
Mark
Well we're hanging on to our trusty diesel for as long as possible or until we're forced into one of these wretched EVs. I see more horror stories of these very day concerning 'self-immolation', insurance hikes because of writing off the car for the smallest knock given the unknown potential battery damage issues, the resale values plummeting, the cost of fast-chargers that can mean they are more expensive to own and run now than your ICE vehicle. The USA has a big rebellion going on with dealerships stock piling these on their forecourts unable to shift them. China has graveyards of thousands of EVs unsold and a lot of their EV companies are going bust.
A stupid move to rush these in,
Please note, I'm no longer active on the Forum, so won't respond to messages.
