Adblue / Additive Issues

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so if the pump is allowed to run dry then of course it will become damaged and ultimately stop working. There won't be a message on the dash for this, but you will get fault codes about this. I can't tell you what the exact code will be, but obviously if the pump fails, then it's likely not to be communicating with the engine ECU which will show comms faults.

But that could just as easily be a wiring problem of course. So that's why they provide possible suspect areas for these fault codes - but I don't have the specific code details for your vehicle I'm afraid.

Back to your question - as I've said, there are separate codes for each system showing, so it would appear that you have 2 different issues going on: a fault (s) with the DPF Eolys additive pump communicating and then a separate issue with the Adblue NOx sensor. These are unrelated and separate issues. The Eolys additive pump is integral to the reservoir, so if found to be faulty the additive tank is replaced that contains the pump.

As for your Adblue issue. If you have been told it's a NOx sensor, then I would get that changed first as if this is faulty, and the NOx readings are too high, the engine will flag a warning and may initiate the countdown as this is a European requirement that the vehicle is prohibited from starting if not rectified. As for the Adblue tank itself, there is a possibility that if the NOx sensor does not resolve the warning, then it is common for these tanks to fail, necessitating an expensive replacement.

If the tank is faulty and as your car is 2016 you may be able to get some contribution from Citroen, however, they will charge you for the diagnostics, simply because they have to follow a guided procedure to test for failure and provide the evidence. This is so they can claim back from the manufacturer themselves. What you get back if anything will depend on the mileage and the vehicle having been serviced according to manufacturer's standards at the recommended intervals / mileage.

[Mexico14]

Thanks for the reply Marc.

Doesn't it seem like a design flaw that if the eolys is running low it will flag up a dashboard warning, but if the pump has failed no dashboard warning at all?

It was a corroded wire that caused the parking brake issue - I'm wondering if that damaged wire could have given erroneous dashboard readings? As they've disappeared since the parking brake was repaired.

In the past a faulty abs sensor caused about 5 different dashboard warnings.

I'm guessing the only way to find out is have the car connected to diagnostics again and see what codes are still present.

Would a diag box show if the eolys tank was correctly reset when the fluid was topped up? I'm assuming they'd have topped up the fluid in situ, if the tank was removed from the car could that cause issue, would it have needed reprogramming by diagbox?

[GiveMeABreak]

You have to understand that some systems like the braking, are linked to multiple other systems, like the ESP / ABS, Cruise Control Electronic Handbrake etc. etc., so a fault in one of these areas will impact on the other systems that rely on the data streams being present and correct.

The Eolys additive pump is generally very reliable. They tend to go wrong under conditions I mentioned before. If they are topped up and checked at the recommended intervals, they can last without incident.

Diagbox will not show if and when the counter additive was last reset or when it was last topped up - as I said it has no way of knowing this as the fluid is not physically measured.

There is normally only a need to notify the driver that the estimated / calculated additive level is low based on the remaining mileage to the next service. It cannot account for owners / previous owners who don't get the fluid topped up or who reset the additive counter without topping it up or even for third part garages / DIYers that don't actually reset the additive counter correctly. There are members who have been unsuccessful in resetting the additive counter on some engine ECUs (or where there is a separate additive ECU) using diagnostic tools. VCI clones / software issues most likely, resulting in the dealer having to do it.

Removing the additive tank and refitting it does not need 'coding' but it does need initialising to ensure the pump is correctly primed using the diagnostic tool.

[Mexico14]

Hmm so the tank could have been refilled and reset = nothing showing on the dashboard. If the tank wasn't initialised, it wouldn't be spraying any fluid into the fuel tank and could create the fault codes I now have as the DPF is slowly getting clogged up?

If that is the case, could the tank be initialised and it would clear the fault codes? Does the tank need to be physically removed or the power disconnected for the tank to be successfully initialised? Or could it be left in situ and leave it to diagbox to sort?

OR is there any other ways to rule out a knackered eolys pump without replacing? To replace nox sensor and eolys tank/refill + labour I've been quoted circa £800

[admiral51]

Just posting my thoughts so not from a mechanical/technical background

If i have read the thread correctly the Eolys tank was empty/ran dry in August last year with a fault on the dash and the OP was informed it had been re-filled and warning light removed. Now if it was filled with 1 litre that should last for maybe 20-30k if memory serves me right, sure someone will give the correct mileage depending on town/motorway driving etc.
I had the service light and low additive message and yes the Eolys fluid is expensive and i got it refilled and used DiagBox to reset the counter but i am just wondering if....
Was the Eolys actually refilled with even 1 litre, or was it told it had been refilled to clear the warning and now it has run dry and hence the fault codes and warning?
Just thinking along the lines of the warning for low level comes on if service intervals/mileage do not match ie run out/very low before next service interval ?
Not sure on how much success people have with cloned DiagBox on vehicles post 2010 but i did manage to reset my 2010 C5 and can confirm that in the repair/maintenance section you can tell the ECU that the Eolys has been refilled. I bought 3 litres to be put in aware that it would not hold more than that and i think i reset the counter to zero which seems odd but will always trust Marc's advice
From memory there were 3 options in the menu
1. Additive added
2. Work on parts of the system
3. Initialize the pump after removal/refitting of pump/parts of the system.

Not sure if this helps

Colin

[GiveMeABreak]

Hmm so the tank could have been refilled and reset = nothing showing on the dashboard. If the tank wasn't initialised, it wouldn't be spraying any fluid into the fuel tank and could create the fault codes I now have as the DPF is slowly getting clogged up?

There's no way to know for sure. The initialisation and priming operations are there to ensure that everything is working correctly once the new tank has been fitted. Obviously I can't say whether the pump has been injecting fluid or not - we can't tell that.

If that is the case, could the tank be initialised and it would clear the fault codes? Does the tank need to be physically removed or the power disconnected for the tank to be successfully initialised? Or could it be left in situ and leave it to diagbox to sort?

No, there is a comms issue where the tank is not speaking to the engine ECU. Initialisation and priming takes place with the pump physically connected - not off the tank.

OR is there any other ways to rule out a knackered eolys pump without replacing? To replace nox sensor and eolys tank/refill + labour I've been quoted circa £800

Unfortunately not as it needs phsyically investigating and troubleshooting as to whether the pump is dead - which may account for no comms with the engine ECU. But as I already pointed out it could be a wiring issue - these are what needs investigation on the vehicle.

As for the Adblue - your mechanics have already said it needs a NOx sensor, so that's not as expensive as an Adblue tank.

[Mexico14]

This afternoon I had the car hooked up to Paul-R's diag box.
Faults were cleared then retested. Only the BSI code remains - apparently that can be a phantom code?

Interesting that the adblue level was registered as 6.1L after I'd added 7 would over a litre be used after less than 200 miles?

The DPF indicated it had "1022" remaining I'm guessing that's centilitres? Also the last regeneration was 200km ago and the average was time between them was 500km - would that suggest the eolys pump has been functioning correctly?

In terms of the obtaining a diagbox, what version of the software would I need for my car? Where's a reliable source for the code reader, do I need a ceertain model number or version?

[Hell Razor5543]

If you are buying a DiagBox system it will come with the installation software. Make sure to get a setup from a reputable supplier, as some of the cheaper units have a reduced opto-coupler set, which means it will not work on come PSA vehicles (such as a C5). Some Forum members swear by Easy Diagnostics as a supplier of good quality equipment (with a decent aftercare service).

[myglaren]

If you do opt for the EasyDiagnostics one then there is a discount for forum members.

See here.

[GiveMeABreak]

This afternoon I had the car hooked up to Paul-R's diag box.
Faults were cleared then retested. Only the BSI code remains - apparently that can be a phantom code?

Interesting that the adblue level was registered as 6.1L after I'd added 7 would over a litre be used after less than 200 miles?

The DPF indicated it had "1022" remaining I'm guessing that's centilitres? Also the last regeneration was 200km ago and the average was time between them was 500km - would that suggest the eolys pump has been functioning correctly?

In terms of the obtaining a diagbox, what version of the software would I need for my car? Where's a reliable source for the code reader, do I need a ceertain model number or version?

For your vehicle you will need at least Diagbox V9.**.

As for the Adblue, there may be some in the system (in the pump assembly and the supply lines going to the catalytic converter, which I believe is at the front of the vehicle in the engine bay. So that will likely account for the discrepancy. In future, I suggest you don't let it get too low. My theory is that as Adblue crystalises in the air, if you constantly allow the tank to run low, then you are asking for trouble. I top mine up every couple of months as a minimum to reduce the air in the tank.

[Mexico14]

I've put the crystal additive into my tank, that should negate the need for monthly topping up? I'm surprised no one is manufacturing the adblue with anti crystal.


Does this look like a decent buy?

[Paul-R]

The FB bit isn't showing for me. Tried two different browsers.

"Cannot load Facebook SDK. Disable any adblocker or tracking protection and try again."

[GiveMeABreak]

Indeed, another way of milking us diesel owners.

I've been a bit dubious about putting any additives into the tank, but anti-crystallisation products are being extensively used in the commercial sector and products from Wynns and Forte for example are now widely available, though not cheap.

I've just secured 2 x bottles of the Wynns (125 ml) for £16.70 inc. free delivery, so will be putting one in when it arrives and I do my next top up. It should keep the injector nozzle crystal free and add that extra bit of protection. So this will mean me having to top up less frequently, otherwise I'll have an issue with the Adblue quality sensor no doubt!

[GiveMeABreak]

The board won't show any Facebook stuff (thankfully), so you'll have to provide another way to link to your info. We don't have any ads here and Facebook links would no doubt bring baggage with it.

[Mexico14]

Here's the description and some photos of the lexia for sale with a laptop. I did try easy diagnostics but appears they're out of of stock. Where is recommended fmto source a reliable set up. I believe I need a full chip? What shall I look out for?