206cc 2.0 cam sensor

[jgra1]

only another Planet session from tonight..

thoughts anyone?

one pic is BSI errors, the other two are PU ECU errors (last one re: spark may have turned up during yesterdays tests) - this reference the CYL#1 is ominous, assuming that's the cambelt end
Also, still wonder why other code reader gave :
P0345
The camshaft position sensor located in the internal combustion engine monitors the position and rotational speed of the camshaft. It works hand in hand with the reluctor ring that creates a square wave voltage signal that the ECM interprets as the camshaft position. The ECM uses this information to control ignition spark and fuel injector timing. When the trouble code P0345 is set, the ignition spark and fuel injector timing fail due to the engine not knowing when to fire these components.

why hasn't PP given that code?


I have the towel ready, arm is good. I am not massively upset but on the other hand, 6 years of mostly reliable motoring and consumables, and it may be over.. but it's on my watch! I haven't scrapped anything for many years, strange feeling! Clutch, cambelt , brakes and exhaust were the main jobs - all quite recent.

[jgra1]

ahh.. similar to V6's words..

The vehicle’s PCM or Power Control Module detects the ‘misfiring’ by keeping track of the engine speed. As soon as it detects the misfire, it will then set the Error code and turn the Check Engine light on in the dashboard.

Wheeler in 2013 regarding an Hdi, say's
the cylinder reference sensor is the CAM sensor, the crank sensor can't tell what cylinder is firing, only that 1 & 4 are at TDC. The cam sensor is used for initial cylinder reference on start up, it then uses the crank sensor for running. The cam sensor then has no input to the running of the engine whatsoever but if it is faulty or disconnected the engine won't start back up if its switched off.

anyway, either way.. if I have lost compression, causing a misfire, it doesn't really matter how its sensed, its goosed

[CitroJim]

John, interesting thread and problem...

Have you done a simple, old-fashioned compression test?

I'm sure you have but I may have missed it...

[jgra1]

hi Jim!

Yes I did.. for some reason my readings are a bit all over the place, but I read 8-10 Bar on 3 cylinders on occasions, and on the final cylinder I never got above 2 bar. I will repeat this test again later if I can, so I can be sure. I may also pop some oil into the bores to prove a ring issue.

[CitroJim]

Those figures certainly point to an issue on one cylinder John...

Good idea to do a wet test... If not rings then possibly a burned valve...

Off with 'er 'ead

[jgra1]

I just tested my compression tester against my compressor, and alles is gut.. it was under reading by a few psi but no matter.. there were no leaks in the rubber pipe and the joins to the extensions etc - which I was hoping there would be

I threw some oil down 1 and 4, the same quantity, so far, dipping each cylinder appears to show they are both holding .. will check again later..

my endoscope cant really see much now there are slicks down there

Annoyingly Jim, I cant really do any more with the car, the landlord will start to get uppity.. i have so far spent 10 hours testing and trying and i know I am near the end.. Whether it's worth removing lights, wings and doors, bumpers is to be decided. Its a rare shade of silver only used for a year or so!

We will keep the nightbreakers for sure!

swimbo is compiling a list of possible replacements.. at or under £2.5k - i don't know what has made the shortlist, I am slightly hopeful an older 1 series 118 or 120d has! ideally a 5 door hatch, 06-10, cheaper RFL, nice to drive.. I also quite fancy her to get an older Civic ... anyone else have any must-look-ats?

[RichardW]

That's bad news, John....

Not worth recovering used bulbs - in my experience they have always disintegrated by the time you come to use them - no idea why that should be when they are off the car, but it always seems to be the case.

I would stick it on e-bay, no reserve at the scrap price, someone will take it on!

[CitroJim]

Sorry to hear that John

I would stick it on e-bay, no reserve at the scrap price, someone will take it on!

Indeed, a friend suffered a catastrophic engine failure in a VW Eos and sold it for a quite healthy price on eBay as spares/repairs...

Far better than just sending it to the scrappies...

Gumtree allegedly works if you don't fancy using eBay...

[lexi]

IIRC some engines measure pressure on the starter motor for compression readings.

[jgra1]

that's interesting Lexi! not this one being a MY2000 car but good to know.

been out there with my DAB and my torch.. still enjoying it!

The oil left in Cyl 1 and 4 was still there after 4 hours, and it was pretty much the same quantity in both. I sucked it out, pinned the throttle a lot more open, and did another compression test.. this time I tried 1 and 3 and possibly 2..

I couldn't get any readings worth a damn from any lol

I then had a thought.. if the belt has slipped, maybe some cylinders wont be affected.. don't ask me how I came up with that as it now makes no sense! Wheel off (scaffolding, thanks dodgy tyre place swimbo took it to)
inner front arch, serpentine, and crank pulley. All timing marks line up...

My original thought was the cam sensor, and that was ordered/sent on Monday but has yet to arrive. I have to try it just for fun ..


in the last image above, there are 2 intermittent faults.. as it happens the speedo drops in and out often.. could either of them be relevant ?

[CitroJim]

in the last image above, there are 2 intermittent faults.. as it happens the speedo drops in and out often.. could either of them be relevant ?

Possibly, most likely an intermittent loss of power to the engine ECU or a bad earth...

I had a 207 that would intermittently cut out, always in a dangerous place, and it took me 6 months to find the duff earth causing it. One to the body right under the fusebox... Paint had not been removed to allow good contact...

May be worth a check John...

[jgra1]

I remember it well Jim! yes will check what i can

[jgra1]

not really any news and not any further.. the silly sensor still hasn't arrived after 7 days - i really don't think it is the problem though.

I have now tried compression testing many times, and still getting odd results.. however, its clear that the problem cylinder is the best one now! 150 psi.. 2 are about half that, and the fourth is not reading much at all..


I have one theory left, which I would like your yes or no answers for please

have you ever heard of an engine low on oil, with no warning lights, taking out a few cylinders? I am at a loss to explain what we thought was a perfectly good engine, now suddenly unable to muster the kind of compression readings we would expect.. and it is very low on oil..

[xantia_v6]

Does this engine have hydraulic tappets?

[CitroJim]

Big ends are the usual first casualties of low oil John, but it's quite possible if it killed the rings and scored the bores...

Mike makes a very valid point about hydraulic tappets...

I think, as they said during the French Revolution, 'off with 'er 'ead...'

Only then can you really see what's going on...

Have you checked the valve timing? If it's slipped or any VVT system has catastrophically failed that could account for it too...

I'm getting very curious... Do please go the whole way to diagnosing this please