2CV Question

[Fake Concern]

It's taken a while, but I had a camera when I visited my cousin with the 2CVs today! Even got to ride in the LHD 1960 semi auto & it's really nice.

Love the cover, my wife thought it looked like a hippo!



Blue/grey with patina next to the "new" white one.

[citronut]

were do they live Peter

and its not quite semi auto, it will be a traffic clutch, this is like a centrifugal clutch, so you sit at junctions/traffic lights in gear with the clutch engaged, and when ready to take of just bring the revs up,

[spider]

I've heard about this "traffi-clutch" but never seen one, as Malcolm has said I thought it would be a centrifugal type assembly (no other easy way of doing it!) possibly similar to how the little Honda C50/C90 have I guess in some way.

I recall being told they are three rather than four speed with the centrifugal clutch though ? Not sure. Then again you'd only want 2/3/4 really I suppose.

[citronut]

i dont recall how many gears they had, but i do remember them having a centrifugal clutch ( similar to the Daf Daffodil ), as set of the likes of small brake shoes with heavy springs and a conventional clutch plate,

[Fake Concern]

You are correct about the centrifugal clutch Malcolm, it has 4 gears & lives in Shadoxhurst Kent. We went for a ride in it.

[Stickyfinger]

FYI some of the information we have , this type of small RPM adjustable Centrifugal clutch was [ developed] during the war as a power transfer system on Tiger/Panther and Tiger Ausf B tanks specifically for the cooling fan drives.......call it war booty as German developments were fair game. Identified in many ways, the lineage of the German work on this design (and other critical parts) is also evident in a number of truck makers in the UK/US and France as well

We have recently been digging very deep into these subjects.......http://www.theresearchsquad.com/
France was a big producer of engines and many components (as well as trucks/ammunition) from the plants captured and those under orders in Vichy provinces. Many workers were forced to Germany and much of the knowledge and many parts were already produced in France, this is a big factor in the success of the immediate post war french car/truck manufacture.

If anybody has some extra detailed drawings of the Citroen design I would very much like to see it.

[lexi]

I went to buy some tools from an add in Glasgow a few months back.
On finding the address I could see the guy was a Citroen enthusiast. A Berlingo and a little soft top C1 sat in the drive. The prize was inside though with a beautiful original condition 2CV.
The Guy was quite a character and we spent ages talking. Maybe some of the 2cv brigade know him. His name is Joe Cent.

[citronut]

France was a big producer of engines and many components (as well as trucks/ammunition) from the plants captured and those under orders in Vichy provinces. Many workers were forced to Germany and much of the knowledge and many parts were already produced in France, this is a big factor in the success of the immediate post war french car/truck manufacture.

in recent years Citroen were demolishing part of there old factory to discover ( said at the time 2 ) turned out to be 3 prototype dersh'ies ( 2CV's ) bricked in in the attic, apparently Citroen destroyed all evidence of the dersh plans to stop the Germans getting hold of it

[Leachim]

Hello all,
Newbie to this Forum, but no stranger to the 2CV - self build Pembleton 20 years ago, BMW R100 powered: still going. Looking at a project, 2CV BMW oilhead powered ( Pete Sparrow style), but wife now disabled with left leg prosthesis. She can't manage a clutch. Considering using a traficlutch, knowing it consists of centrfugally operated friction shoes in a drum on the back of the flywheel.

Encountered many years ago, I recall it had an inhibitor preventing starter use if not in neutral. If that was disconnected it might be possible to start the car in 1st or 2nd ( handbrake firmly on!) and even change gear on the move once the revs died to a tickover? The BMW lump is quite tolerant of pulling away in 2nd on tickover. The hope is that 'clutch out' it matters little whether it's the friction plate or friction shoes not gripping?

I would use the foot clutch normally - if SWMBO could manage with just the traficlutch , the notion may be good. The combination of 2CV and BMW is already " normal" - adding windscreen, wipers, doors and some weatherproofing likely to receive approval. The "auto everything" and advisory "pings" in the daily driver is just too much.

[thorter]

The Traficlutch worked surprisingly well for town driving. However, it was quite possible to write off the gearbox if you were not careful. What happened was that the car was in gear, but coasting down a hill as fast as was wanted and so not needing any throttle. The engine was idling and the centrifugal clutch thus not engaged, but the gearbox was whirring round.

Now if you blipped the throttle, the Traficlutch engaged, and the engine was zoomed up to match the road speed in milliseconds!

[Leachim]

Thorter,
Thanks for the response. My Rover has "Freewheel" - a system of rollers which ride up and down ramps connecting drive under power, disconnecting on the overrun, if activated. Saab had a similar device.

In the overrun situation you describe, would it be possible to shift to another gear? In my simplistic view does it matter which side of the flywheel is disconnected, a different ratio could be selected? Bringing up the throttle would re-engage drive - ponderous, but doable?

[thorter]

Hi,

It is many years since I had the Traficlutch, so memory is hazy. It is a bit different from a free wheel, which works on speed difference only, so safe. Free wheels were nice to use, but government officialdom disliked the idea that engine braking might not be available.

The Traficlutch was only meant to be useful in stop start traffic, and to avoid the situation I described, there was a dashpot on the carburator to delay the throttle closing enough during gear changes. It worked well in French type traffic.

Unfortunately, slow UK traffic would regularly get slower and slower, and if the revs got to tickover, the clutch could disengage. This was mostly fine as it would re-engage if you accelerated using the throttle. The problem came when the car ran downhill due to enough gradient, probable with the driver using light braking and no throttle pedal.

If going fast enough when it did re-engage, it immediately speeded up the engine which of course engaging it yet more, possibly with terminal strain on the gearbox. When this happened to me (gearbox survived) I quickly replaced it with the ordinary clutch. The car also had the normal clutch, so if you were sufficiently awake, the solution was to disengage this, rev up the engine, and re-engage.

[Leachim]

Yes, the freewheel device (essentially a centrifugal "lock") is useful on the Rover (now 90 years old) because it's on the end of the gearbox, not before it, so when freewheeling, the gearbox is not turning. This means another gear can be selected, without double declutching - useful on a crash box.

I understand the scenario you describe, where momentum means the Traficlutch disengages, so the wheels are still driving the gearbox - but then, in normal foot clutch mode, with clutch disengaged, the gearbox is still rotating but changing in to 2nd, 3rd or 4th is possible due to synchromesh (of which we all know there is none on 1st!).