When re-timing, don't forget that the crankshaft makes TWO revolutions for every ONE of the camshaft and injection pump. You should be fine provided the crankshaft and camshaft were locked before you removed the belt (or you haven't moved either of them) - all you need to do is rotate the pump to the 'lock' position and fit a new belt - don't forget to check the state of the idler and tensioner bearings while you're at it.
It's improbable for the pump to have advanced itself, but I suppose it could have jumped back (retarded) by 2 teeth less than a complete revolution which would be the same thing as 'advancing by two teeth.
The 'ping' when the belt was removed could have been the tensioner if it wasn't wound back and locked off.
Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
Moderator: RichardW
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Old-Guy
- Posts: 1798
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- x 17
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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citroenxm
- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
- x 71
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
The "Two turns per one for the cam" is totally irrelevent when your Pinning the engine up!!
The crank is designed so that it ONLY gets pinned at TDC, its then the job of the cam shaft to decide if its on compression or not, this is then determined by the One Hole in the head against the One hole in the cam sprocket..
If people still get this wrong, they deffo should not be playing with engines.
The Cam shaft timing hole, which incidentaly is a 13mm bolt size threaded hole is roughy between 4 and 5pm in the head.
The XUD really is one of the simplest engines EVER to work on, no verniers, or VVT or anything crap and complex like that.
Put the pins in.... put the belt on, and even that is one where the tensioner MUST be at its tightest... tighten all locking bolts on the tensioner, remove the locking "Screws" and away (After refitting the crank pully!)
The crank is designed so that it ONLY gets pinned at TDC, its then the job of the cam shaft to decide if its on compression or not, this is then determined by the One Hole in the head against the One hole in the cam sprocket..
If people still get this wrong, they deffo should not be playing with engines.
The Cam shaft timing hole, which incidentaly is a 13mm bolt size threaded hole is roughy between 4 and 5pm in the head.
The XUD really is one of the simplest engines EVER to work on, no verniers, or VVT or anything crap and complex like that.
Put the pins in.... put the belt on, and even that is one where the tensioner MUST be at its tightest... tighten all locking bolts on the tensioner, remove the locking "Screws" and away (After refitting the crank pully!)
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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citronut
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
- x 93
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
sort of Paul but it should still be observed on setting the engine up before removing the old beltcitroenxm wrote:The "Two turns per one for the cam" is totally irrelevent when your Pinning the engine up!!
it also pays to rotate the engine two full turn after removing the peg/pins then re/fit them to check they still line upcitroenxm wrote: Put the pins in.... put the belt on, and even that is one where the tensioner MUST be at its tightest... tighten all locking bolts on the tensioner, remove the locking "Screws" and away (After refitting the crank pully!)
Regards, malcolm.
current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
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masood_ilyas
- Posts: 121
- Joined: 01 May 2001, 00:01
- x 1
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
After a few days of damp weather I managed to get back to the car today.
Timed the Cam and fuel pump gear and just for diagnostic purposes used an old timing belt hanging around to see if the engine will fire up. No timing covers or the pipes to the turbo were attached not even to inelt chamber. Fingers crossed turned the ignition and a very pleasant surprise greeted me, it fired up first time without any sort of clattering noises. Phew that must have been close one.
This left me wondering what happened as nothing makes sense and worst still leaves a doubt about the fuel pump that it might fail any time again. The only thing which looking back during the dismantling process was that I found one nut which tightens the Tensioner was found loose, may be it caused the tension to change. The other nut below 9 O'clock position under the cam gear was ok but this nut to right of 5 O'clock position of the cam gear was not.
Is this relevant or was it just another red one.
Now waiting for a clear day to complete the job.
Masood
Timed the Cam and fuel pump gear and just for diagnostic purposes used an old timing belt hanging around to see if the engine will fire up. No timing covers or the pipes to the turbo were attached not even to inelt chamber. Fingers crossed turned the ignition and a very pleasant surprise greeted me, it fired up first time without any sort of clattering noises. Phew that must have been close one.
This left me wondering what happened as nothing makes sense and worst still leaves a doubt about the fuel pump that it might fail any time again. The only thing which looking back during the dismantling process was that I found one nut which tightens the Tensioner was found loose, may be it caused the tension to change. The other nut below 9 O'clock position under the cam gear was ok but this nut to right of 5 O'clock position of the cam gear was not.
Is this relevant or was it just another red one.
Now waiting for a clear day to complete the job.
Masood
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citroenxm
- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
- x 71
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
Very very relervant.. the tension on the xud is very important and it MUST be tight... not slack like newer engines etc.. the belt needs to be taught between the cam injection and crack sprockets in that order then let the spring in the tensioner take ALL the slack up then both the upper and lower bolts on the tensioner need dooing up tight to hold it tension
injection pumps of the roatry type are impeckebly reliable.. this issue you had most certainly will be the slack bolt...
injection pumps of the roatry type are impeckebly reliable.. this issue you had most certainly will be the slack bolt...
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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masood_ilyas
- Posts: 121
- Joined: 01 May 2001, 00:01
- x 1
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
Thanks CitroenXm, I can now rest easy about the fuel pump itself.
By the way it was this nut which was loose, the bolt itself to the left was tight ok.
Thanks to every one else for their kind advice too.
Masood
By the way it was this nut which was loose, the bolt itself to the left was tight ok.
Thanks to every one else for their kind advice too.
Masood
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citronut
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
- x 93
Re: Slipped timing belt, is it always fatal for the valves
even though on an XUD lump both the bolt and nut should be tight, i dont think the tensioner would move easily if only one or the other were loose,
Regards, malcolm.
current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years
current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years