bad luck when buying - trying again - Now C5 HDI?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 15 Aug 2011, 22:57

where ARE YOU??

We can tell you then....

Paul

flashgit · Unread post by **flashgit** » 16 Aug 2011, 00:07

Bradford. west Yorkshire

Unread post by **myglaren** » 16 Aug 2011, 06:59

No, the C5 suspension is not as good as the Xantia.

You really need to test drive both.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 16 Aug 2011, 07:53

flashgit wrote:Bradford. west Yorkshire

Ah, that rules me out then... your nearst indy is Savoy Garage in Hapton, Near Blackburn from the top of my head...

Paul

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 16 Aug 2011, 08:00

The C5 suspension is more simple in design than either Xantia, XM or anything before, as it has less pipework and less spheres (4 on H3 models). The suspension pump is electric and so it reacts quicker when self-levelling or changing height. Sad little fact but I like the way the C5 lifts itself up slightly on a morning when you press unlock on the key.

Strut tops do not seem to be a weak point as they are on Xms and Xantias either.

As for comfort, the C5 is not a smooth over bumps as a well sorted Xantia. It gives much better comfort than a conventional car and you have the added bonus of self-leveling. Its worthmentioning that not a great deal of Xantias will have perfect suspension now, most I see on the road are bouncing along with little to no suspension. So check that carefully if you do look at another Xantia an budget for spheres etc.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 16 Aug 2011, 20:33

Citroenmad wrote:Sad little fact but I like the way the C5 lifts itself up slightly on a morning when you press unlock on the key.

Me too - also the lift/lower ability of the rear end while loading.

I was rather surprised and not in a nice way to find my daughter's Rover 75 to be smoother in town than the C5.

For smooth, the only better car than Jim's Activa and V6 that I have been in was my GS. Floatier than a floaty thing.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 16 Aug 2011, 20:37

Ahhhh well steve, you've not seen my Xantia SX NON Hydractive setup!!

Ask RedDrawfers about the rear suspension... it is majour soft!!

NOTE: Rear end lowering on C5's is an Estate ONLY feature...

Paul

Unread post by **myglaren** » 16 Aug 2011, 21:03

citroenxm wrote:Ahhhh well steve, you've not seen my Xantia SX NON Hydractive setup!!

Ask RedDrawfers about the rear suspension... it is majour soft!!

NOTE: Rear end lowering on C5's is an Estate ONLY feature...

Paul

Good job I only have an estate then

My Xantia was quite decent but harder than the BX estate which was harder than the GS.
I'm convinced that Jim's were much more compliant than mine (non hydractive S1)

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 16 Aug 2011, 21:32

An accumulator sphere at each coner is what you want for really soft suspension

Peter

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 16 Aug 2011, 22:56

Steve, the Xantia Activas can be softer than other Citroens in certain cases, as the rams effectively make the ARB almost disconnected. It is the ARBs which ruin the ride. I have driven a C5 with a missing drop link the the ARB was not working and it was exceptional. To demonstrate I drove it up a low curb and didn't feel a thing! However the Activas tend to be a bit more firm than a normal Xantia.

Our old white XM is the best riding Citroen I have driven, not the softest but the smoothest but with good body control too. Its spheres were up on pressure slightly and it had a larger front soft sphere. Our XM estate set up is the same now but it being an estate it has thicker ARBs, stil nice and soft though, the rear is really something!

I dislike soft Citroens which are nt controlled, which is why I like the hydractive Xantias and all Xms, as they give a very good ride but are not too wollowy. The C5 is firmer but is controlled because of it, I think its a very good comprimise. I have had a C5 with comfort spheres and that was awful, as are standard Xantias with the same, so uncontrolled.

Earlier C5s do seem to ride softer than the later ones. Again hatchbacks will tend to be softer due to thinner ARBs.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 16 Aug 2011, 23:14

Citroenmad wrote:I have had a C5 with comfort spheres and that was awful, as are standard Xantias with the same, so uncontrolled.

That depends upon the wear to the struts and bushes, the ride on Xantia's does seem to vary quite a lot even though they may have the same spec sphere's fitted. My VSX has non Hydractive sphere's fitted and gives a very smoooooth but controlled ride whereas my estate with the same spec sphere's and just 20k more miles can be a little too soft at the front end unless I switch it into sports mode. I know the estate has larger rear struts but the fronts are the same.

I can't agree on Activas having a smoother ride under any conditions, in my experience they are quite firm going straight ahead and solid as a rock around corners to the point of being jarring if a bump is encountered.

For the best combination on a Xantia use non Hydractive sphere's then turn the suspension into sports mode, as soon as a reasonable size bump is encountered it switches into firm mode as in normal Xantia suspension so no rebound or uncontrolled bounce, especially useful when the car has done over 100k.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 16 Aug 2011, 23:21

Comfort spheres are spheres with an enlarged damping hole, it limits the damping and therefore the ride is not as controlled as it should be. This is not how a sphere should be adapted to give a softer ride, it can ruin the ride if the holes are drilled too much.

Said C5 with comfort spheres was swapped back to genuine Citroen spheres and now rides as it should.

Both my Activa and our previous one had the same sphere set ups (as we did them) and both cars rode very similarily, one with half the mileage of the other.

A test of that was the road along from the field where this years national was held. Im sure you know the one, its very very undulating with cross undulations affecting the NS wheels in the main. My Activa was hugely impressive down it even at speed, it seemed to let the wheels move much more independantly. I drove a C5 and an XM down there that day, both rode nicely but on that road with sudden undulations on the nearside they were not as level as the Activa. ARBs essentially connect one side to the other, which tends to pull the car into bumps rather than let the wheels drop into them.

There is a similar bit of road around here and its a good test of a Citroen, the C5 on comfort spheres was totally useless, far better on genuine spheres though, very good in fact. Its not quite as bad as the road near to the National, however at speed the Activa irons this road, the only car which I have been down it in which felt similar was a CX. Now, CXs are superb at ride quality.

The Activas do firm up a lot when cornering, its in their nature, but on the straight ahead there are times when I find it betters normal Xantias and XMs. However, most times the non Activa cars are much more compliant, the Activas can be giggly at low speeds.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 16 Aug 2011, 23:53

I appreciate what you're saying Chris but I've have the luxury of driving similar Xantia's back to back along the same roads for years on end, whereas your Activa comparison is months if not years apart from the previous one you owned and with the best will in the world comparisons years apart aren't exactly going to be 'hot'.

Thankfully fenland roads are the extreme in the country due to subsidence and whereas an Activa may well have given the best ride over those roads, elsewhere as in the vast majority of roads in the UK its very very firm and nowhere near as compliant as a Hydractive Xantia, after all I did run my Activa for a good two years at the same time as owning a V6 on normal/genuine sphere's, my VSX and an Exclusive estate on non Hydractive sphere's.

Some may like a firmer ride on their car which is fine if that's what they want to do in order to 'feel the road', personally I have Citroens so that I can enjoy a smoother ride and don't have to endure 'the feel of the road'.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 17 Aug 2011, 00:02

I did say above in certain circumstances they can be better but on the whole they are more firm ... far far firmer than a C5 even, let alone a good Xantia (hydractive or non) or XM.

Yes, a long time apart but I remember the first to be similarily soft under the same road conditions.

I wasn't disputing your Xantia experience Richard, which far outweighs mine. I was just commenting on the experiences and comparisons of mine and pointing out the effects of ARBs to ride quality... I believe Mercedes also has a system which effectively disconnects its ARBs on some models. It is often a downside to handling!

And I don't disagree, Activas ARE firm, but they have their advantages on the odd occasion

My ride preference is an inbetween one, I don't get on too well with very soft and floaty but hate being jiggled about in cars feeling every bump. Normal Xantias, Xms or even C5s ride just about right for me.

Can't remember ever being in a Xantia hydractive with non-hydractive spheres, I bet it is a good combination if your after a softer ride.

We have played around with fitting different spheres and pressures on cars to get the optimum ride too.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 17 Aug 2011, 00:09

Its each to their own Chris when it comes to how firm a ride is acceptable, I look in horror at the current trend of VW's being lowered to their bump stops then burst out laughing as the occupants bounce up and down on their seats.

As an aside on that point a friend of friend who has a R5GTT was recently prosecuted for not having sufficient suspension travel on his car, boy racers be warned!