2001 C5 2.2HDi - Very Rattly then Stopped!!

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 06 Jan 2011, 18:24

KevMayer wrote:I don't think they'll be piezo injectors on this 2001 C5.

Piezo injectors came a few years later.

Pretty sure all common rail diesels use piezo injectors.

SwissSPEC · Unread post by **SwissSPEC** » 06 Jan 2011, 19:01

My mates 55 plate astra had a faulty injector, their was diesel in the sump & the engine made an awful knocking sound & would suddenly start revving away without the throttle being touched, & the amount of white smoke that belched out was a sight to behold. Anything like you experienced?

corsehf · Unread post by **corsehf** » 07 Jan 2011, 00:16

Not quite, i do have more oil in the sump than before which can only be credited to diesel.
I did have white smoke bellowing out when the rattly pinking noise could be heard but this all changed to black smoke as the rattly pinking noise got louder and the engine started losing power.
At no stage has the engine tried to rev automatically - in fact the opposite, it does not want to rev.

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 07 Jan 2011, 00:38

It seems to me that you really need to check the compression to get a feel for any possible piston damage.
That means removing the injectors, and once you have got them out you might just as well get them tested / calibrated.

Have read that removing injectors on the 2.2 can border on the impossible because of carbonisation of small amounts of diesel around the seals, apparently A class Merc diesels also suffer the same problem. A tip I picked up from a Merc site was to liberally apply Nitromors paint stripper around the base of the injectors and leave overnight, according to the author worked a treat.

cachaciero

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 08 Jan 2011, 10:38

I've had a look around the internet and several sources discuss that early Common Rail diesel injectors were solenoid operated.

Reference is made to 'Third Generation' common rail injectors being piezo electric. This can be seen in the link below.

http://www.commonrail.info/

I'm not sure at what point the change to piezo came, but, I've been under the impression for some time that the injectors on my 2002 2.2 HDi are solenoid operated.

corsehf · Unread post by **corsehf** » 12 Jan 2011, 23:54

UPDATE!!
Tonight, my Brother-in-Law popped over to lend a hand and at first, when he heard the car running, he thought it could be the timing belt has slipped a tooth.
However, we made up a DIY kit of tubes and little containers and checked the amount of diesel coming from the 'Leak off' returns.

3 of the injectors returned a similar amount however, the fourth injector (no 3 on the engine) returned roughly half the amount of diesel than the other 3 and there was quite a bit of air bubbles in the pipe too.

Will be speaking to a Diesel injector specialist tomorrow but does this info help any expert out there???

steelcityuk · Unread post by **steelcityuk** » 13 Jan 2011, 08:36

The assumption would be that if this injector is returning half of what the others do then it's being admitted into the engine. If it is, it could be that rather than being atomised it's dribbling in which could mean it won't burn correctly leading to lumpy running and white smoke.

I've got an A Class that needs an injector checking, I'm not looking forward to it!

Steve.

dieselnutjob · Unread post by **dieselnutjob** » 13 Jan 2011, 11:26

as the engine is still running dribble duck oil or similar down the side of the injectors and run the engine until its hot
then leave the oil to soak for a day or two before trying to get any injectors out
it can only help
to get these injectors out a straight pull is unlikely to work, it's best to see if you can twist it to free it first
it probably doesn't matter if you damage the injector getting it out as it will be going in the bin anyway
lastly there are some very expensive tool that will get these out even if stuck and some mobile guys who have these and do a removal service

corsehf · Unread post by **corsehf** » 13 Jan 2011, 13:40

The injectors are being soaked with PlusGas as we text!
Need to drain some of the oil first before running too long!!

steelcityuk · Unread post by **steelcityuk** » 13 Jan 2011, 15:37

This reminds me very much of the self destructing Mazda diesels from a couple of years ago. Their dipsticks had Min/Max/'Critical' markings on them.

Some of the injector pullers have to be seen to be believed, they look like something from Terminator.

Steve.

corsehf · Unread post by **corsehf** » 14 Jan 2011, 12:09

The Good News: Injectors are out and now at the Bosch Diesel Specialists nearby - doddle really!

.
The Bad News: The chap there doesn'y think it's the injectors at fault but a broken exhaust rocker.
Are there any written instructions on how to remove the cam cover / cylinder head anywhere so that i can check the rockers??

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Jan 2011, 12:43

Hi Andy

If its a DW12 engine the camshaft is chain driven, there is quite an involved procedure for removal, I don't know that its all that difficult, but involved. It gives a pretty good description in the Haynes manual for the 406, I think its the same engine in yours but cant be certain.

Peter

dieselnutjob · Unread post by **dieselnutjob** » 14 Jan 2011, 13:53

yes the late 406 Haynes is a good resource
you don't have to take the head off, just the inlet manifold
if the injectors are stuck then that's impossible but as you have them out already you should be okay

before refitting injectors
buy 4 new copper sealing washers
the old ones normally come out with the injectors and have to be pulled off
make sure that the surface in the bottom of the hole that the sealing washer seals up to is clean
I normally get a big screwdriver, wrap kitchen paper around it, then put the paper so that the blade only goes half way down and then fold the other half over
then I stuff it down the hole and twist
repeat until clean

if you do take the inlet manifold off it might be easier to clean the injector seal mating surface before you fit it back on

corsehf · Unread post by **corsehf** » 16 Jan 2011, 17:53

Timing belt covers are off, exhaust cam cover is off but before i take the inlet manifold / inlet cam cover off, i thought i would fit the timing bolts to check the timing was still ok. Timing belt looks fine - tension appears ok.
Have bought a Haynes manual to provide assistance yet its descriptions and pictures are of an engine on a bench whilst the instructions are in a section called: 'in car procedure'!! - totally useless and a waste of money!!!

I am having difficulty in finding the hole that locates the timing mark on the flywheel. If it's the same as the XUD engine then i cannot see. I have removed the starter motor for better vision but i still cannot see it.

Can anyone enlighten me with instructions / directions as to where this hole is,

pictures would help too!!

Also, can the car be lifted onto its highest suspension setting without starting up the car??

woodywoodpecker · Unread post by **woodywoodpecker** » 17 Jan 2011, 00:05

corsehf wrote:Timing belt covers are off, exhaust cam cover is off but before i take the inlet manifold / inlet cam cover off, i thought i would fit the timing bolts to check the timing was still ok. Timing belt looks fine - tension appears ok.
Have bought a Haynes manual to provide assistance yet its descriptions and pictures are of an engine on a bench whilst the instructions are in a section called: 'in car procedure'!! - totally useless and a waste of money!!!

I am having difficulty in finding the hole that locates the timing mark on the flywheel. If it's the same as the XUD engine then i cannot see. I have removed the starter motor for better vision but i still cannot see it.

Can anyone enlighten me with instructions / directions as to where this hole is,

pictures would help too!!

Also, can the car be lifted onto its highest suspension setting without starting up the car??

Hi Andy,
The timing hole for the flywheel is on the engine block behind the drivers side driveshaft unbolt the plastic intercooler pipe that is bolted to the sump for easier access to get your hand in, i did exactly the same as you and removed the starter motor when i was renewing my cam belt to find no timing hole there..... lol, i can't remember of top of my head if its 6mm or 7mm but i used a drill bit to peg the timing, Get under there with a torch m8 you will see it. Sorry to hear about your injector probs your having hope you sort it.